CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview With Virginia Senator Mark Warner
Interview
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
TAPPER: The president did not directly answer the question.
Joining me now, Democratic Senator Mark Warner. He's the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee.
And, Senator, I know you're very eager to talk about the government shutdown. You have tens of thousands of constituents directly affected.
But I do want to start on this FBI counterintelligence investigation into the president to see whether or not he'd been working on behalf of the Russians. President Trump slammed the idea last night as the most insulting thing he's ever been asked, adding -- quote -- "They found absolutely nothing."
On its face, it's a stunning turn of events. Do you think the president of the United States ever worked on behalf of the Russians, against American interests?
SEN. MARK WARNER (D), VIRGINIA: Well, Jake, that's the defining question of our investigation and the Mueller investigation. Was there collusion?
I'm not going to talk about what we may have been briefed in the Gang of Eight when these investigations opened. But I do think it's curious that, throughout that whole summer, when these investigations started, you had Vladimir Putin policies almost being parroted by Donald Trump.
You had Trump say only nice things about Putin. He never spoke ill about Russia. The Republican campaign doctrines softened on Russia and decreased their willingness to defend Ukraine. There was a series of outside actions.
I think we all remember when Trump, in his bluster, basically said to the Russians, if you have got more e-mails, bring them on. These are not actions of a traditional president of the United States. Later, on top of that, now...
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Let me just push back for one second, because...
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: OK, go ahead. Finish.
WARNER: Well, I just think we need to put this -- all three pieces of what happened in context of last week.
We have the story of the level of concern that the FBI had, again, if the story is correct, to, in a sense, open their own investigation whether Donald Trump was compromised. We have on top of that the fact of the most recent story that Trump had a series of meetings with Putin in which he broke all protocol, where, normally, these meetings, you bring in top aides, so that there is some record, so you can have the appropriate follow-up.
[09:05:03]
In these meetings, he brought in Tillerson once, but the other meetings were simply with the interpreter. And the interpreter was then restricted on, in a sense, sharing that information, to the point that we still don't know, the American government does not know what was discussed between Trump and Vladimir Putin in that, frankly, pathetic, embarrassing encounter where Trump was kowtowing on the world stage to Vladimir Putin in Helsinki.
It was one of the worst days, post-World War II, in terms of America's lack of leadership against a dictator like Putin.
TAPPER: So...
WARNER: And then, finally, I know this -- people -- people have to stretch their memory, but we have to remember all the way back at the beginning of the week, when the stories came out that Trump's campaign chairman was sharing proprietary campaign data with a known Russian agent, Mr. Kilimnik, Kilimnik, who has ties both to Putin, and Kilimnik, who has ties to the Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska, the very same oligarch that the Trump administration now wants to try to remove -- remove the sanctions on.
I think, this week -- I have been waiting for a long time for Mueller to kind of move forward. TAPPER: Right.
WARNER: I think we're seeing these independent actions, even independent of Mueller, which is the lead-up and some of the rationale about why this investigation started and why so many Americans, like myself, have been concerned for so long.
TAPPER: So, Senator, just -- just very briefly, you just said a lot.
You seemed to confirm that -- as a member of the Gang of Eight, which is congressional leadership and the member -- and the leadership of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees, you just seemed to confirm that you had been briefed when this counterintelligence investigation was launched by the FBI.
WARNER: Jake, I'm not -- I'm not -- I'm not going to comment on any of the contents of the briefings that we receive.
TAPPER: I'm not asking for the content, but you -- but you seemed to confirm that it -- you seemed to confirm that it happened, though, that there was -- you were advised, as a member of the Gang of Eight?
(CROSSTALK)
WARNER: What I was saying was, subsequent to that briefing, there was of enough concern that the Senate Intelligence Committee, in a bipartisan fashion, the House Intelligence Committee in a slightly less bipartisan fashion...
TAPPER: Yes.
WARNER: ... launched investigations.
Our investigation is almost -- it's not quite two years in, but we have literally spoken to hundreds of witnesses. We may have spoken to even more witnesses than Mueller. And we have a very important story to tell to the American public.
TAPPER: So, you just laid out a whole list of ways that President Trump, in your view, was parroting what Putin would want him to do.
But the president added that he has taken rough actions against Russia -- and this is accurate -- sweeping sanctions on dozens of Russian officials and oligarchs, selling defensive weapons to the Ukrainians. He is accurate when he says that. He did do that.
How do you square it? If you think that he's working on behalf of Russia, or throwing out the possibility, why would he send defensive weapons to the Ukrainians? Why would he sign sanctions against Russians?
WARNER: Remember, Jake, that the generation of almost all of these sanctions did not arise from the White House. They arose because of huge concern, bipartisan concern, from Congress.
I believe the Russia sanctions bill passed, I think, 98-2. So the sanctions that were passed by Congress, they passed at such an overwhelming amount that Putin didn't even have -- Trump did not even have the power to veto them.
I think we would -- many of us would argue that, while those sanctions have been put in place, the Trump administration has been very slow at implementing those sanctions. And then, when the sanctions really start to bite, as in the condition of this Russian aluminum company, Rusal, what we see, instead of, let's keep the pressure on -- and I know there's concerns from our European allies about these sanctions.
Instead, the Treasury Department dreams up this series of actions where you take a company that was completely founded by Oleg Deripaska, where he placed all the management team in place, and they have a scheme to try to take his ownership level down from 70 percent to roughly 40, 45.
Jake, I have been in business longer than politics. If I have still got my whole management team in there, and I'm still the largest shareholder at 40 or 45 percent...
TAPPER: Right.
WARNER: ... I'm going to still control that company.
That is why I, and I know a number of members, I think Democrats and Republicans, will vote to override this week the removal of these sanctions.
This is the worst time -- as more and more of this information comes out about ties between Trump and Trump officials and the Russians, it is the worst time to signal that we're going to take the pressure off of oligarchs like Deripaska.
[09:10:05]
TAPPER: I know you really want to talk about the government shutdown, so this is just a very yes-or -- this is a very quick yes-or-no question.
WARNER: Sure.
TAPPER: Do you think President Trump is, wittingly or unwittingly, an agent of the Russians?
WARNER: Jake, I think the earlier evidence this week, where the president's campaign manager -- and we're unaware of whether the president knew -- where the president's campaign manager, at whose direction, turned over confidential polling data to a known Russian agent, a known Russian agent who has ties to Putin and Deripaska.
TAPPER: Yes.
WARNER: Why would you turn over that information?
And what's curious, Jake, is that it would be that kind of information that would inform the Russians later in the campaign when they launched their social media efforts or they created these fake identities.
TAPPER: Mm-hmm.
WARNER: And, as we have seen with clear-cut proof, a lot of those efforts were aimed at suppressing African-American vote.
Did they use that polling data to guide the Russian social media efforts to suppress African-American vote? We don't know the answer to that yet.
TAPPER: OK.
WARNER: I would hope that Mueller has got more indication. But it's a very real question.
TAPPER: All right, so, the answer is, you don't know yet.
Let's turn to the shutdown.
You represent roughly 34,000 federal workers in Virginia who are currently going without pay, not to mention thousands more contractors who may never get back pay.
Let's just ask where you are on this debate about the border wall. Is it your position that there's not one part of the nearly 2,000-mile border with Mexico that could stand to have any new barrier or wall?
WARNER: No, there is already 700 miles-plus of wall that's been built, some for more than a decade.
That was decided by border security experts. I'm for additional border security. But that border security ought to be driven by the experts, not by the political whims of a campaign promise, where Trump said the wall was going to be built and it was going to be paid for by Mexico.
This guy doesn't tell the truth. So, more border security, let's have at it. But, while we're having that debate, let's reopen the government.
Tim Kaine, my fellow senator and I, met with a set of federal workers the other day very, very briefly. Here were the things we heard. Do you want an air traffic controller who is working overtime without pay? You want that person focused on air safety. You don't want 30 percent of his mind focused on whether he's going to be able to pay his mortgage or pay his kids' tuition.
TAPPER: Right. No, I hear you.
WARNER: We heard from another federal worker.
We had another federal worker who had to draw out -- she had had savings. She had to draw down from her IRA, where, even if she gets reimbursed, she is going to still have paid the tax penalty.
TAPPER: Yes. WARNER: We had another worker who took a multi-thousand-dollar
increase from their credit card. Those credit card fees, they will never be reimbursed.
TAPPER: So...
WARNER: And, Jake, the worst story we heard, the worst -- just one is -- this one is one where, again, I think this Trump crowd does not think through anything.
They basically -- there was someone there with a 7-week-old baby. When they tried to get their baby on the insurance, their government- owned insurance, the person that was supposed to fill in the form was furloughed. The doctor gave a very expensive medicine for the baby.
TAPPER: Right.
WARNER: Thank goodness the guy was able to convince the insurance company. But countless others are going out without that kind of benefit.
I think history will show that Donald Trump, the supposed great dealmaker -- and I'm working on a piece on this -- that business schools and management consultants will look back for years and say, this was the most inept negotiation.
He boxed himself in a corner. He didn't empower his negotiators, like the vice president or Lindsey Graham or Mitch McConnell. He's not allowed any win -- win-win circumstance.
And the disregard he has paid to the federal workers, where he has been cavalier, never sat down and visited with them, and then, to add insult to injury -- this doesn't get a lot of news -- we had -- we, bipartisan, had promised the federal work force a very meager 1.9 percent pay increase.
TAPPER: Right.
WARNER: He wiped that pay increase out, as well as this treatment of the work force that's been just awful.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Senator Mark Warner from the great Commonwealth of Virginia, thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it.
WARNER: Thank you, Jake.
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
Source