CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Interview With Connecticut Senator Richard Blumenthal

Interview

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BLITZER: Who knows.

All right, Shimon, thank you very much.

Joining us now, Senator Richard Blumenthal. He's a Democrat who serves on the Judiciary and Armed Services Committees.

Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

I want to get to the Russia investigation in just a moment, but let's start with the government shutdown. President Trump is standing by his demand of $5.6 billion for the wall. He says he is willing to keep the government shut down for months, maybe even years. At some point, do you believe Democrats have to compromise and come up with some offer, at least some money for his border wall?

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D), CONNECTICUT: There is a clear path forward, Wolf. It is the path we were on when the United States Senate unanimously approved an approach that now has been adopted by the House of Representatives, and would be passed by the Senate.

Let me emphasize, I believe that reopening the government with full- year appropriations to all of the agencies that have nothing to do with border security and then funding through a continuing resolution the Department of Homeland Security, which would give us time to reach that kind of compromise, and yet...

BLITZER: But the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, says he's not going to allow it to come up for a vote because the president is threatening to veto it.

BLUMENTHAL: And you took the words right out of my mouth, Wolf. The impediment here is simply the refusal to allow the United States Senate to vote.

This Trump shutdown is wholly on Donald Trump, who wants this vanity project that he promised the Mexicans would pay for. He has failed to spend the money that's already been appropriated, that $1.3 million, only 6 percent of it is spent on border security.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: One-point-three billion.

BLUMENTHAL: One-point-three billion.

But the refusal to allow the Senate to vote, I think, is a major impediment, because I think that sending the bills to the White House would put President Trump on the spot, and he would have to decide whether he wants to make a counteroffer that would enable us to move forward.

BLITZER: It doesn't look, Senator, like the DACA issue, the dreamers, as they're called, is on the table right now.

Is there anything President Trump could offer you and your fellow Democrats that would get you to agree to border wall funding?

[18:15:05]

BLUMENTHAL: The president has really not been a serious or credible partner in any talks about DACA.

What the Republicans in the Senate are discussing is a three-year work permit extension, which is simply a non-starter. And there has to be serious and substantial and credible conversation about comprehensive immigration reform.

So there has been nothing substantive or specific discussed as yet. The United States has to provide a path to citizenship right away for the dreamers and, indeed, a path to earn citizenship for the 11 million undocumented people in this country through comprehensive immigration reform.

But so far, there's been no credible or serious discussion.

BLITZER: The president now says the wall could be steel, not necessarily concrete. It might be called a barrier. It might be a fence. Is that a concession, from your standpoint?

BLUMENTHAL: The president's been, again, a moving target. Negotiating with him is like trying to talk to Jell-O, as Senator Schumer said.

So I think, again, extending and reopening the government, so that we can have serious discussions and work out exactly what border security would be, because that's the common ground. To go back to your very first question, the common ground here is border security. We all want it through better technology and more manpower, training the border agents and allocating more of them, surveillance, sensors. The top administration officials who come to Congress have provided no

evidence whatsoever that the southern border is a source of terrorism or terrorists coming across. And the stopping of illicit drugs requires more and better surveillance at the ports of entry.

The commissioners and the secretaries who have come to us over the past two years have provided evidence that we need better border security, and we're all for it in the Congress.

BLITZER: The president says that, you know, he is willing to use his national security emergency powers to build the wall if you guys continue to refuse to provide some funding for the wall.

Wouldn't a compromise be better than allowing him to declare a national emergency to build the wall through the U.S. military?

BLUMENTHAL: The president's threats are really a disservice to the rule of law and to the American people.

They undermine the credibility of his office. There's no legal theory, no credible claim that the president can make under the Constitution or the laws of the United States, like the anti- deficiency statutes, that basically prohibit him from reallocating money that's already been appropriated.

The Congress has the power to appropriate, the power of the purse, which was so rightly given to the Congress by the founders. And there is no evidence either of a national emergency based on terrorist threat or drug importation that would justify that kind of claim.

So I think that this kind is threat really has to be regarded as totally fact-free and law-free.

BLITZER: Let's turn to the news on the Russia investigation, with yet another extension for Robert Mueller's federal grand jury, perhaps for as long as an additional six months. What does that tell you?

BLUMENTHAL: What it tells me is that Robert Mueller has miles to go before he sleeps or stops.

There are going to be more indictments in this new year, as I have predicted repeatedly. The record of this special counsel investigation is already extraordinarily substantial. And that's the reason why the judge concluded that it was in the public interest for this grand jury to be extended for another six months.

Now, remember, he could have impaneled a new grand jury and transferred all of the evidence to that grand jury. So it is a mark of this grand jury's interest in this case that they were willing to continue to serve in this capacity, which is extremely onerous for the average citizen.

There are very substantial sacrifices involved, and they are a key part of our justice system. So, bottom line, I believe that we're going to see substantial work still to come by this grand jury, by the investigations in New York in the Southern District, and by the Eastern District of Virginia.

BLITZER: Listen to this, Senator, what the president said today on the issue of impeachment.

[18:20:01]

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BLITZER: All right, what's your reaction?

BLUMENTHAL: My reaction is that we need to await the special counsel's report before we make any judgment about what the remedies would be for potential law-breaking.

And there's already a credible case of obstruction of justice against the president of the United States. And, as for his performance in office, the American people can judge for themselves.

But I challenge the president to direct his Cabinet to donate their pay to charities of their choice. I'm donating my pay to Homes for the Brave, a Connecticut organization that benefits veterans here in Connecticut.

And the hardship and the harm from this shutdown to the American people and to the dedicated federal workers, including, by the way, all the members of the Coast Guard, who are unpaid, unlike other members of the military, undermines that claim that he is doing such great service to the nation.

BLITZER: Senator Blumenthal, thanks so much for joining us.

BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.

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