CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: One-On-One Interview With Tennessee Congressman Steve Cohen

Interview

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WHITFIELD: All right. Joining me right now from Memphis is Tennessee congressman Steve Cohen, Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee.

Thanks so much for being with us on this Sunday. So let's begin with what we just heard, you know, from President Trump's attorney, Rudy Giuliani. He says the President never instructed Michael Cohen to lie in this congressional testimony but does admit that they may have discussed what Cohen was going to say. So what do you do with this information from his personal attorney Giuliani?

REP. STEVE COHEN (D), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Both Giuliani and Trump are untrustworthy. They have a record of misstatements and lies. They go back - for Trump all his for his whole life, Giuliani since he joined Trump. So it's difficult to accept what they say, but it's clear that Trump talked to Michael Cohen, that he had interest in the Moscow deal right up to the edge of the election, and --

[14:05:24] WHITFIELD: Do you see that as potentially obstruction?

COHEN: The goal line is moved. I think it could be obstruction. I think we are going to see a lot of obstruction of justice. And I think we are going to see a lot of collusion. I think the Mueller report is going to be eye-opening to a lot of people who have unfortunately put a lot of faith into President Trump.

WHITFIELD: Michael Cohen also admitted, you know, that he lied about how late in the campaign that he talked to President Trump about the Trump tower project in Moscow. Giuliani, you know, he didn't even dispute that, but says it doesn't really matter because President Trump probably didn't remember the discussions, anyway. He also confirmed that the President, you know, was asked about it by the special counsel. So did you know that that was among the questions from the special counsel?

COHEN: No, I didn't actually know that those were the questions, no.

WHITFIELD: And now that we are hearing that from his personal attorney, how does this, you know, equip those in the House who either say now it's a time to, you know, move ahead with impeachment proceedings or, at the very least, you know, wait for Mueller's findings with baited breath?

COHEN: We are going to have hearings in both judiciary and government oversight on all of these issues concerning obstruction and the emollients clause, abuse of power that have been levied in the media and court filings about Trump. I think we are going to find out that there has been, in fact, violations of all of those things in the clause and there has been obstruction and there has been abuse of power. And I think that will eventually lead to impeachment hearings. But I think the first you do is you have to gather your facts. I think we can gather them without Mueller's help. But I think Robert Mueller's report is going to be a very, very eye opening.

WHITFIELD: And are you encouraged that you will receive a full report or at the very least a synopsis from, you know, based on what we heard from the nominee for attorney general William Barr, he believes that at least portions of it should be made public.

COHEN: I was disappointed in - with Barr's testimony, you know. The attorney general has discretion over whether to release that even to Congress. And I think it should be released except for the parts that intelligence, our intelligence folks say it needs to be redacted to protect sources and methods. We should see it all. And I think maybe that's the deal we should

make with Trump on his border wall. He gives us the entire report redacted only by CIA folks and he gives it to Congress and to the American public, and that might be the deal, and he agrees to have that be seen in public. I think that would be appropriate.

WHITFIELD: OK. And that brings us to, then, the offer of the President made yesterday on the wall and what he is hoping Republican senators will be voting on this week and eventually go to, you know, the House. Are you feeling like there is negotiations underway or do you feel that the President is not giving, not making room for negotiations from Democrats?

COHEN: I think it's an opening salvo. I think he did it partially because of the paychecks that are due out Tuesday and he knows he is going to get more political hurt because of that. And I think he did it because Nancy Pelosi had her trip to -- trip is the wrong word, probably, but her journey to Afghanistan, which is no place you really want to go but you go out of a sense of duty, and wanted it to be so -- make it look like this was important for the speaker to be there to respond to his proposal.

If you do anything with DACA, it needs to be a permanent path to citizenship, and it doesn't need to be three years, and it doesn't need to be - and I will be surprised if the Senate passes even what he's proposed. We'll see, but I will be surprised if it passes the Senate. But it is going to be a difficult slog, but to get the full funding for his wall, which is necessary.

And remember, the Mexicans were going to pay, who is going to pay for it? Mexico. We have forgotten all of about that now. And it is the American taxpayers and the American government employees who are being held hostage for paying for the wall.

The wall is up where it needs to be (INAUDIBLE) where they need to be. And what we need is technology. More money and personnel. The Democrats have offered more money for immigration courts, more money at the ports of entry for technology, more money for drones and those are the things we need to offer. And they are in the President's proposal and he could accept part of a loaf, but he wants to have his wall. His wall is something he has got -- it's a political promise he made, but the promise was the Mexicans were going to pay for it. All you Trumpers out there, don't forget he lied to you.

[14:10:25] WHITFIELD: The House speaker made it very clear not long after her swearing in, she said, there is no money for the wall. The vice President, you know, Pence was asked earlier today on CBS, you know, whether the President and when the last time the President has negotiated face to face with Pelosi, with Schumer, and the vice president said that, you know, the President bypassed Democratic leadership in negotiations, and instead went the rank and file. Why? What do you see in that strategy?

COHEN: He didn't go to the file. He tried to get some of the quote- unquote "problem solvers" to come out before him, but they said that we need to open the government first, which he didn't do. He tried to get some of the people who had been elected from prompt district to come to the White House, they refused.

Basically, he went to Jared Kushner and Mike Pence and said, what can we throw out here to make the Democrats look bad on the eve of these checks being given out and try to get -- find something?

WHITFIELD: So are you any more encouraged that all sides are closer to a deal so as to get government up and running again or do you see a stalemate.

COHEN: We need to get the government up and running. I have met with our employees, our government employees who are out of paychecks and still working. And it's I a difficult situation. But remember this. The Trump budget and the Trump tax scam put us $3 trillion more in debt. We don't have the moneys we need right now for giant infrastructure package, for healthcare for our people, and for public education and for people with disabilities.

Put $5.7 billion into a useless wall just to give the President his political needs and his personal little pet project is wrong. We have limited - less government money than ever before because of the tax scam that gave so much money to the upper two percent, just hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars to the wealthiest people, the Mar-a-Lago set, and we need that money for other things and we could do so much with research, with healthcare, with education and we don't need to be wasting that much money on a wall.

COHEN: And in your view, quickly, is the ball in the Democrats' court?

COHEN: The ball is really in the President's court. The President is supposed to be running the government. That's what he takes and notes to do, and that his job as chief executive is to keep government open and running and working and he has failed. Thirty days into a shutdown. It is the Trump shutdown. The Democrats and Republicans both in Congress article one, we appropriate the money.

Yes, he can veto it. But the Senate should have passed the bill. What we passed to open the government. We have done it eight times. Give them to the President. We want to veto it and go through the process and see if can override his vetoes. Get the government open without the wall. It is possible we could have done that. But Mitch McConnell has become the mid-chef (ph) down as well because he hadn't put the votes up in the senate and he hasn't gone through the process.

The government is supposed to be operated by the chief executive and he has failed to do his job and carry out the laws.

WHITFIELD: All right. Tennessee congressman Steve Cohen, thanks so much for your time today.

COHEN: You are welcome. Thank you for having me.

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