CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Ted Lieu (D-CA)
Interview
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BALDWIN: Democratic Congressman Ted Lieu of California is with me now. He's a member of the House Judiciary and Foreign Affairs Committees. Congressman, a pleasure. Welcome.
REP. TED LIEU (D), CALIFORNIA: Thank you, Brooke.
BALDWIN: So, let's get your take on the evolution of collusion from this White House, the story's certainly have changed over time. What say you?
LIEU: Let me thank CNN for putting Rudy Giuliani on TV, it would be great if you could keep doing that because last night he made a stunning admission, denying that he ever denied that anyone in the Trump campaign engaged in collusion, only that Donald Trump didn't and we know that he had to go to this position because Paul Manafort, the Trump campaign manager, gave polling data to the Kremlin. That would be collusion because the Kremlin was doing a cyberattack and influence campaign and this polling data would have helped give them a road map on how to influence American voters. By the way, collusion is a crime. I'm a former prosecutor. It's just called "conspiracy" in legal terms.
BALDWIN: So, as you point out, Giuliani likes to come on TV. He likes to come on CNN and when he does, Congressman Lieu, he has a habit of dropping bombshells to get out ahead of breaking news, to get out ahead of the next proverbial shoe that's about to drop, do you think that's the case here? LIEU: It's certainly possible or he is looking at the same public
reporting we're all looking at which is either there were 497 coincidences last two years with Russia or something really bad happened, and I think what he's trying to do is to put out into the public that, OK, we understand that members of the Trump campaign, in fact, engaged in collusion but he's trying to protect Donald Trump from that. What Democrat-controlled Congress is going to do is try to figure out this year, did Donald Trump know of the collusion within his campaign?
BALDWIN: There was one other moment in the interview that I just want to highlight where Rudy Giuliani claims obstruction is not part of Mueller's mandate. Here he was.
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BALDWIN: So that's actually totally not true. When you look at Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein's -- it's his May 2017 letter, Congressman, appointing Mueller, this is section B, subsection 2, explicitly states, the Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confirmed by then FBI director James B. Comey, including any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation. Are you reading it the same way I am?
[14:05:00] LIEU: Absolutely. So in early 2017, Congress members Stacey Plaskett, Kathleen Rice and I who were all former prosecutors we wrote a letter to the Department Of Justice asking for appointment of the Special Counsel because we were reading regulations and it became clear to us that we needed to have a Special Counsel that was independent from the President, start investigating and based on those regulations as well as the letter that Rod Rosenstein actually wrote, it authorizes obstruction of justice investigations as well as anything else related to the Russian inquiry.
BALDWIN: You mentioned a second ago that it is your party now in control on the House side and so, when we talk about Trump and consequences, Congressman Lieu, is there any question in your mind that more of the Trump inner circle will face indictments for contacts with Russia?
LIEU: That would depend on what the evidence is that is uncovered. I do have to say that subpoena power used in the correct way is a wonderful thing and the Democrats will certainly use the subpoena power to get documents. The mere fact they know we have that power will cause them to appear. I'm pleased that had Michael Cohen is coming up to Capitol to testify. I'm going to have Matt Whitaker come testify. We want to know why he hasn't recused himself yet because he wanted to defund it.
BALDWIN: You mentioned Michael Cohen. Lastly, just are there any new subpoenas coming from your committee that you want to make public?
LIEU: Subpoenas or not, the preferred way we would like to do it, we want to first give witnesses the ability to voluntarily come. We're pleased that the acting Attorney General Matt Whitaker has agreed to come to the committee.
BALDWIN: OK. Hang tight with me just for a minute. You mentioned Michael Cohen. If people haven't been paying attention, collusion isn't the only word of the day. There is also Cohen as in Michael Cohen turned convicted felon who is set to tell all the before Congress next month. Turns out he wasn't just shelling out hush money, he also tried to rig online polls in Trump's favor as reported out today by "The Wall Street Journal." The President has a love/hate relationship with polls, he loves them until he hates them.
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BALDWIN: Fact check. The President was correct. Someone was indeed trying to rig the polls and it was Michael Cohen and according to him, Trump directed him to do it. M.J. lee is with me now. Stunning piece in "The Wall Street Journal" today.
MJ LEE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Stunning and bizarre. Donald Trump does love to complain about polls being rigged if they are not favorable to him but he's OK with them apparently if they're being rigged to help him. "The Wall Street Journal" story says that Michael Cohen enlisted a man named John Gauger. He works at Liberty University and is also the head of a tech company to rig these online polls to help Donald Trump look better. For example, a CNBC poll in 2014 that ranked business leaders, a drug poll that ranked the Republican Presidential potentials. Now in early 2015, this man went to Trump tower to collect $50,000 from Michael Cohen for the services that he provided. Now, this is where the story gets very, very strange. Michael Cohen apparently handed John Gauger a cash bag, this is a Walmart bag that had some 12,000 to $13,000 in it instead of the full $50,000 payment. Even though Gauger says he was only paid this $12,000, Michael Cohen apparently then proceed in 2017 to ask Donald Trump to be paid back the full $50,000 and he apparently got the money, according to the story Donald Trump paid Michael Cohen $50,000 for the work that he did related to the polling and just to let you know what Michael Cohen is now saying in response to all of this, he tells "The Wall Street Journal" that he disputes the money bag part of this story, saying, all monies paid to Mr. Gauger were by check. He also gave CNN a statement earlier today and let me just read it to
you. As for "the Wall Street journal" article on poll rigging, what I did was at the discretion of and for the sole benefit of Donald Trump. I truly regret my blind loyalty to a man who doesn't deserve it. So obviously he is not denying that this poll rigging happened and I can guarantee you, Brooke, when he comes before Congress in February, he's going to be asked about this and we are going to see him in a public setting saying, Donald Trump made me do this and that is why I did it.
[14:10:00] BALDWIN: Got to ask Congressman Lieu about this. When you hear these details and again it's almost -- whether it is a blue Walmart bag stuffed with $12,000 in cash or as Michael Cohen is saying, no, no, no, it was a check, either way he is acknowledging it was handed over to this i.t. guy to rig the system. When you read about this, you thought what?
LIEU: So, my first thought was we are the most powerful nation on earth and this is just embarrassing. This is just another instance of someone very close to Donald Trump engaging in unethical activities at the direction of Donald Trump and you're right, Brooke. It doesn't matter whether it's $13,000 in a bag of cash or in a check or in a wire transfer, the fact that Donald Trump was telling Michael Cohen to go ahead and rig polls is unethical and it is just something that you sit and think, we're not living in a parody and you wake up and read in those stories and it makes you think you are.
BALDWIN: What is the one burning question you want him to answer to?
LIEU: So, he's going to testify before the House oversight committee. I'm very sure that our Elijah Cummins is going to make sure that he answers all the relevant, important questions. What I want to know is since Michael Cohen was up front and personal and close to Donald Trump, just a straight up simple question, did members of the Trump campaign collude with the Kremlin and did Donald Trump know about it?
BALDWIN: Uh-hum. If that happens, February 7th, until then Congressman Ted Lieu, thank you so much.
LIEU: Thank you.
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