CNN "Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees" - Transcript: Interview with Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont

Interview

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COOPER: All right. Kaitlan Collins, appreciate it.

Earlier tonight, I spoke with a lawmaker who was not in the Situation Room this afternoon, but might influence the outcome, independent senator and 2016 Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders, here's that full interview.

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COOPER: Senator Sanders, the president says he's not budging. The Democrats say they're not budging. So where do things go from here?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Well, I think the American people are going to have to stand up and tell Donald Trump that when he told us several weeks ago that he wanted to shut down the government, that he was wrong. And that right now, we have 800,000 federal employees not getting paid.

When Trump tells us he's concerned about national security, you got people in our airports, on TSA, you got people in the Federal Bureau of Investigations. The FBI, who are not being paid. This is an outrage.

And I think that while Trump told the American people he wanted this shutdown, I think he has got to understand that is not in the best interests of this country. And what we have got to do is pass what unanimously passed the U.S. Senate, every Republican supported it. And that is an extension of the government, at least until February, to give us a time to work out a longer understanding.

COOPER: You know, Mitch McConnell reiterated today that he won't put the continuing resolution, that the House Democrats plan to pass tomorrow up for a vote, because the president said he won't sign it. Is it at possible that there could be enough Republican support in the Senate to override a presidential veto?

SANDERS: Well, I don't know the answer to that one, but I do think -- and this is a very profound point -- that the Republicans in the Senate and I know all of them, you got a lot of decent people there, they have got to understand that the Senate is an independent part of the United States government. They don't work for President Trump. They work for the American people and their constituents.

And we need senators, Republican senators, to stand up to this president and tell him that he cannot always get his way. He cannot simply shut down the United States government and cause a lot of suffering to a lot of people.

I was -- I went through TSA today in Burlington, Vermont. And I know this is true all over this country. You've got a lot of workers who don't make a lot of money. That I have got to pay their mortgages, they've got to pay their child care. They are asking why this government is shut down and why they are not being paid.

And I ask and I beg my Republican colleagues, stand up to Trump, do the right thing for this country.

COOPER: But as you know, I mean, this is now -- the Republican Party is the party of Donald Trump now. It's his party. And there are a lot of -- there are some Republican senators who are going to, you know, who are living in fear of facing a primary challenge if they go against the president.

SANDERS: You know, Anderson, I do know a lot of what you just said is true, but that's not what American democracy is supposed to be about. You know, when you've got a president, every American remembers that.

He sat down with Schumer and he sat down with Pelosi a few weeks ago and he said, you can blame me. I'm proud to shut down the United States government. And that there are not honest Republicans in the Senate saying, Mr. President, that's not the way we should do business.

So you're raising the right question, but in a democratic society, in our form of government, the Republican Party should not be -- Trump is the leader, but he is not the dictator of that party. And we should have members standing up and representing their constituents, and not just the whimsical approach that this president consistently takes.

COOPER: The president told Senator Schumer today that according to our reporting, that he would look foolish if he backed down. Is he right about this? I mean, this is something that he vigorously campaigned on and promises were made --

SANDERS: This is -- this is what drives the American people crazy. Eight hundred thousand workers today, including the FBI, including the TSA, including very decent people who are trying to support their families.

[20:15:03] They go to work every day. Imagine the feeling that they have. They go to work and they're not being paid. They're being humiliated.

And you have a president who is much more interested in his own ego, in what people will think than he is in terms of these 800,000 workers, and the millions of people in this country who access those services. So I think it's time for the president to grow up and to listen to the needs of the American people, and not just his own ego.

COOPER: Your soon-to-be Republican Senate in the colleague, Mitt Romney, I'm sure you're aware, he wrote a pretty tough critique of the president in "The Washington Post," which was published last night. And about that today, the president said that he hopes Romney is going to be a team player.

Do you believe he will be? Do you believe he's going to stand up to the president, as you have encouraged other Republicans to do, to be kind of a Republican foil to some of his policies? SANDERS: Well, look, you know, the nature of American politics is,

when you have a Democratic president, Democrats generally follow that precedent. But, you know, I was -- I'm a great -- you know, somebody who has a lot of respect and appreciation for Barack Obama. But when I thought he was wrong, I opposed him. Others did, as well.

And what we need, whether it's Romney or any other Republican, you've got a lot of smart people, to say, Mr. President, we are part of your team. I don't want to tell the Republican Party how to operate. They'd do well enough without me.

But to say to the president, look, we're all part of the team. But you're not the dictator. You cannot simply tell us what to do and we are supposed to collapse in support.

And by the way, this president changes his mind every single day. He lies a whole lot of times. So, I think it is terribly important as we enter the New Year for Republicans in the House and the Senate to say, sorry, Mr. President, we cannot be with you in every instance.

COOPER: Just lastly, I want to ask you about an article published in "The New York Times" today. In it are allegations describing episodes of sexual harassment and demeaning treatment as well as pay disparity in your 2016 campaign.

I wonder, were you aware of those allegations during the campaign? And if you do run in 2020, how can you ensure something like that doesn't happen again?

SANDERS: Good -- good question. And the answer is, Anderson, I'm very proud of the campaign we ran in 2016. We started at 4 percent in the polls, we wound up winning 22 states, 13 million votes. I think we changed the nature of political discourse in this country, raising issues that are now kind of mainstream, which were then considered extreme and fringe.

But when our campaign grew from, I think we started with three or four paid employees, and over a period of a few months, as the campaign exploded, we went up to I think 1,200 employees. And I'm not going to sit here and tell you that we did everything right in terms of human resources, in terms of addressing the needs that I'm hearing from now that women felt disrespected, that there was sexual harassment which was not dealt with as effectively as possible.

What I will tell you is that when I ran for re-election in 2018 in Vermont, we put forward the strongest set of principles in terms of mandatory training, in terms of women, if they felt harassed, having an independent firm that they can go to. And I think that's kind of the gold standard for what we should be doing. So I certainly apologize to any woman who felt that she was not treated appropriately. And of course, if I run, we will do better next time.

COOPER: And just to be clear, you seem to kit that you did not know at the time about the allegations? Is that correct?

SANDERS: Yes, I was a little bit busy running around the country trying to make the case.

COOPER: Senator Sanders, appreciate your time. Thank you.

SANDERS: Thank you.

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