Hearing of House Subcommittee on Immigration, Border Security, and Claims: Immigration Enforcement Resources Authorized in the Intelligence Reform...
HEARING OF HOUSE SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION, BORDER SECURITY, AND CLAIMS: IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT RESOURCES AUTHORIZED IN THE INTELLIGENCE REFORM AND TERRORISM PREVENTION ACT OF 2004
March 3, 2005
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Ms. Lofgren. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Before getting into my questions, I would like to especially thank Mr. Gadiel and Mr. Eggle for being here, having lost two sons. I just can't imagine how difficult that is. That you have turned that horrific loss into an effort to do something for your country is especially admirable. I thank you for your efforts and grieve with you for your loss.
Obviously, the situation we have here is completely unacceptable. Congressman Ortiz, I am glad you brought those tapes. I mean, it's just astonishing to look at that. And I'm mindful, in California, they say more walk than talk. I think in Texas, it's all hat, no cattle. There's been a lot of talk, but really, when you take a look at where the money is, I thought it was 200. But to hear that when you look at full-time-equivalent it's less than that, Mr. Bonner, in the President's budget, it's absurd. I mean, it's absurd. So I think we have a right to demand from the Administration a more aggressive approach, some cattle, not just a hat, and I think that this hearing may be part of that effort.
I want to talk about, just briefly, we focused on the Southern border, and that's appropriate, obviously. There are huge issues there. But I'm also extremely concerned about the Northern border, which is actually longer and less protected.
I'm wondering, Mr. Bonner, obviously, you cannot replace Border Patrol agents with technology, and I hear what you are saying on the unmanned vehicles, but having seen some of the technology, if you have sufficient forces on the border, which clearly we do not now, the cameras and the like can be helpful, can they not, to an adequate force?
Mr. Bonner. Oh, absolutely. The cameras and the sensors are eyes and ears, but without hands----
Ms. Lofgren. Right.
Mr. Bonner.--you won't catch a single violator.
Ms. Lofgren. So I'm wondering if you know whether we have sufficient--obviously, we don't have sufficient agents at either border, but to have 250 agents for 4,000 miles at the Northern border is, I mean, obviously deficient. In addition to that deficiency, do we have sufficient camera and technology deployed at the Northern border, do you know?
Mr. Bonner. No, we don't. It's my understanding that the Administration will be rolling out the new national Border Patrol strategy very shortly. I have not seen it, but I fear that they're going to be trying to sell the public a bill of goods that technology, the existing technology, is somehow a substitute for additional personnel, and it certainly is not. We need both, and one should not be at the expense of the other.
Ms. Lofgren. I serve also on the Homeland Security Committee and serve on the Border Subcommittee and we have seen no indication that there is any sensible plan that is coming forward from the Department, in all honesty. I hope that that changes, but we haven't seen anything yet that makes sense.
Just a final question on----
Mr. Eggle. Ma'am, may I----
Ms. Lofgren. I'm almost out of time, if I could, because I want to ask about the lists and the lack of any bio-indicator on those little sheets that you held up, Congressman Ortiz. We do have at the border--maybe we don't have enough of them, but the ability to at least do fingerprints, and we were supposed to have the iris scans, as well. Do you know why those bio-indicators are not connected with the individuals who are being released? Obviously, we need additional space to hold people that should be held, but at least we should not ever have a confusion by name and person with the bio-indicator. Has there not been direction to the agents, or has there not been enough technology to do that, or time? Do you know what the answer to that is?
Mr. Bonner. The answer is I am not sure why they are not doing that. Obviously, it would be more costly to have some type of connection between the documents. We are fingerprinting everyone that we come in contact with----
Ms. Lofgren. With a digital fingerprint machine?
Mr. Bonner. With a digital fingerprint machine, and it connects to the FBI's. The problem with that is that it will only tell us if someone has a criminal record, and, in fact, that system worked----
Ms. Lofgren. Well, the problem is that our system actually doesn't--isn't compatible with the FBI's system.
Mr. Bonner. Well, actually, we're making headway in that and the system actually worked when we nabbed one of the ringleaders of the Mara Salvatrucha gang from Honduras who was picked up by the police in Falfurrias, Texas, I believe. He as held and it turns out that he was the mastermind of the----
Ms. Lofgren. We had a hearing on this very subject in the Homeland Security Committee yesterday, actually, and there's really two reasons for bio-indicators. One is a positive I.D., and then two is to search the records to see if you've got a bad guy, and they're both--I mean, they can stand on their own--separately as equally valuable.
I see my time is up, but if you know or if we could find out, Mr. Chairman, why this technology is not being utilized, it's just a mystery to me and I'm sure--I don't blame the agents, but it's obviously a systematic problem that needs to be corrected, and I yield back.
Mr. Bonner. I would just like to add that the fingerprint system does not tell us if a person is a terrorist because terrorists typically do not have criminal records. What we have to do in that instance is dial an 800 number with the name that they give us, which is going to be a phony name if they're a terrorist----
Ms. Lofgren. No, I----
Mr. Bonner.--to see if it matches a watch list, and that system really needs improvement.
Ms. Lofgren. No, I understand that, but it would prevent the guy coming back a second or third time with a different name and being----
Mr. Bonner. Yes, it would.
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