MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Adam Schiff

Interview

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MADDOW:  Joining us now is Congressman Adam Schiff.  He is the top Democrat on the intelligence committee in the House, starting in January.  He is expected to be the committee`s chairman.
 
Congressman, thank you very much for being with us tonight.  Thanks for making time.
 
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA), RANKING MEMBER, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE:  You
bet.
 
MADDOW:  So, we`ve got a bunch of news in the past hours or so about the Russia scandal and particularly about the legal maneuverings around that scandal.  "Daily Beast" is now reporting that a Republican operative named Paul Erickson, he`s tied to the Maria Butina case, he`s received a target letter from federal prosecutors now saying that he may also be charged as an agent of a foreign power. 
 
The "A.P." is reporting that federal prosecutors are moving with speed now against firms that may have been illegally lobbying for a foreign government as part of Manafort`s operations in Ukraine. 
 
Also, we got the filing last night in the Michael Flynn case in which the special counsel`s office praised his cooperation and recommended no jail time for him. 
 
As somebody who`s got a pretty good grasp on the overall status of the investigation and the scandal writ large, are all these things happening at once coincidentally or do you think that we are entering into a new sort of rapidly unfolding phase here? 
 
SCHIFF:  I don`t think it`s a coincidence and what I fear although I don`t know this is the case is that the appointment of Whitaker may have accelerated a lot of things that the special counsel would have preferred to take into time.  I hope that`s not the case, but it wouldn`t surprise me if that was at least part of the motivation.
 
But, you know, in terms of Flynn, I think one thing we need to remember is, it`s not just that Mueller is recommending no jail time.  That`s a pretty extraordinary you know himself.  This is a former national security adviser lying about a national security matter and doing so in cahoots with the Russians. 
 
But it`s also that when that plea was entered into, Mueller essentially made the decision not to proceed on a whole range of other allegations involving Flynn.  So, Flynn is getting effectively a recommendation no jail time on any of the conduct he was involved in.  That would require very substantial cooperation, and it appears that Mueller got it.
 
When you look at the cooperation agreement that Flynn signed it required him to do essentially anything special counsel asked including wearing a wire.  So, it certainly looks like the cooperation was very fulsome.  Whether that is leading to some of these other developments right now, it`s hard to say.
 
MADDOW:  You mentioned Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker there.  We can tell from reading the special counsels regulations, the regulations that create the concept of a special counsel within the Justice Department, that somebody in Whitaker`s role as acting attorney general would be able to influence major steps in the investigation, could potentially kibosh or otherwise steer major steps in the investigation and we assume that things that count as major steps would be like new indictments, any sort of public report at the end of the investigation if something like that is going to happen.
 
Are you suggesting that Whitaker`s influence here may have extended to what just happened with Mike Flynn to the terms of the deal that were offered to Mike Flynn, to the nature of this recommendation to the judge that Flynn not go to jail?
 
SCHIFF:  I don`t know that it would have affected the terms that were being offered to Mike Flynn, but it may have affected some of the timing.  It may be part of the rush here.
 
Now, part of it may also be due to the fact that during that period before the election, the special counsels effectively had to go dark in terms of any new deals or prosecutions, but it also could be affected by the new person at the top.
 
The other thing I would mention in terms of Flynn is one area where we know that he can and must have offered cooperation to special counsel is, we know that he told those in the transition team, including a very senior transition official about his conversation about sanctions with the Russian ambassador, which means that when the vice president went out and misrepresented this to the country, there were other high-ranking people who knew the vice president was misrepresenting it, unknowingly we assume, but misrepresenting it.  They apparently did nothing or said nothing public about it.  Mike Flynn can offer a lot of insights on who those people are, what conversations went on.
 
And the final point I would make, Rachel, is there is a common denominator about a lot of these issues and a lot of these characters you`re mentioning.  As you played earlier, Maria Butina`s conversation with Donald Trump in that interview was about sanctions.  Mike Flynn was lying about his conversation with a Russian ambassador about sanctions, the meeting at Trump Tower between Kushner and Manafort and Don Jr. that they later denied happened and then admit it happen but said it was about adoptions, that was about sanctions.  There`s been allegations about Mike Flynn and a nuclear power deal that would involve removal of sanctions.
 
Time and time again, there`s a marriage of business interests, making money and talk about sanctions.  Erik Prince and the Seychelles meeting with a Russian banker.  Jared Kushner meeting with a Russian banker. 
 
There are a lot of bankers.  Aleksandr Torshin is part of that group, along with Maria Butina and Paul Erickson, a lot of players with a deep interest in doing away with Russian sanctions, including Donald Trump.
 
MADDOW:  Congressman Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee -- sir, I have always found it edifying to talk to you about this matter, knowing now that you are about to become chairman of the Intelligence Committee and hearing you talk about those kinds of connections in those lines of inquiry, I feel fundamentally different about it.  I feel edified, but I also feel like I`m getting prepped to finally learn some answers to those questions.  Thank you for helping us understand, sir.
 
SCHIFF:  Thank you.

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