MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Adam Schiff

Interview

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MADDOW: Joining us now is Adam Schiff, who`s the top Democrat on the  Intelligence Committee in the House of Representatives.

Congressman, thank you so much for making time for us tonight. Really  appreciate you being here.

SCHIFF: You bet.

MADDOW: So, "The New York Times" has just reported tonight that Paul  Manafort funneled information to the White House, to the president`s legal  team during the time he was supposed to be cooperating with the special  counsel`s office after he entered into this plea agreement with them.  What`s your reaction to that news? Do you see this as a serious matter?

SCHIFF: It`s a very serious matter, and I think Barbara is exactly right.  It represents an effort to essentially double deal by Paul Manafort to  pretend that he is cooperating with prosecutors but at the same time betray  the government, betray the prosecution by sharing information with the  president`s legal defense team. I wonder whether one of the lies that Paul  Manafort told the Mueller team was that he wasn`t talking, wasn`t sharing  information with the president`s legal team.

But, certainly, I would have to think that the Mueller prosecutors would  feel that as a complete betrayal of a cooperation agreement, and it also  appears to be how Giuliani and others have been obtaining information about  what the special counsel is doing when the special counsel has made such an  effort to keep a tight ship.

I will say this, though, not only it is going to infuriate the special  counsel`s office, but it will also infuriate the judge. I mean, judges  don`t like having defendants that are lying to the government because  they`re also through the government, through that lying to the government,  they`re lying to the court. They`re trying to take advantage of the court.

So I think that Mr. Manafort miscalculated once before when he attempted to  suborn witnesses or tamper with witness, and I think he just committed a  another very serious blunder.

MADDOW: If this turns out to have been not Manafort`s own idea entirely,  if this turns out to have been an effort organized by the White House or  the president`s legal team to try to compromise the investigation, to try  to get inside information from the investigation to advantage their own  legal defense for the president, would you expect that to become a matter  of investigation for your Intelligence Committee or for other committees in  the House?

SCHIFF: Absolutely. I mean, the first role I think for the Congress in  all of this is to try to protect the independence of the Justice Department  and the integrity of Bob Mueller`s investigation. That means learning,  finding out, exposing whether there is any interference, any political  interference by the president or his team in any way, shape or form, and if  so, exposing it.

And then there is a whole series of potential consequence. It would add to  a growing body of evidence that the president is involved in trying to  obstruct justice. That might mean the special counsel in his report makes  those findings or recommends prosecution, either, you know, during the  presidency or when the president leaves office. It obviously would be  something the House would have to consider in terms of whether it rose to the level of a high crime or misdemeanor.

But it also may mean that this is merely information that is going to be  provided to voters so that in 2020, they can decide whether they want a  president who is willing to obstruct justice. But there are a lot of  potential consequences that can flow from it and I think our ultimate  obligation is to expose any interference in this investigation.

MADDOW: You`re also a former prosecutor yourself, sir. NBC News tonight  obtained draft charges and a draft plea agreement that were apparently sent  by the special counsel`s office to Jerome Corsi. Mr. Corsi has chosen to  share those documents with reporters. He`s also said that he has rejected  this proposed plea agreement.

I don`t necessarily believe everything that Mr. Corsi says, but it is  unusual to see these documents. We can`t directly verify them, but they  appear to be work of the special counsel`s office.

I just wanted to get your reaction to that. I feel like it`s very unusual  to see what is in effect a draft indictment, to see any court documents in  any legal proceeding.

SCHIFF: Well, it is. But, you know, what I imagine what would have taken  place here is the special counsel would have presented this packet to Corsi  and his lawyers so that he could be sure, OK, this is what I`m prepared to  plead guilty to, this is what the cooperation agreement will say. This is  what I`m admitting. So, it wouldn`t be unusual to provide that in detail.  It would be very unusual for them to make it public like this.
And it does beg the question why is all of this happening all of a sudden?  Why is it all happening now that Manafort is attempting to double deal?  That Corsi looks like he is attempting to double deal.

Is any of this related to the appointment of Whitaker? Has that changed  the calculus of these witnesses who were willing to cooperate? Do they now  feel that they`re going to get a pardon? And if they do, why do they feel  they are going to get a pardon?

We are obviously going to have to explore all of that. I will say one  other thing that leapt out to me about the statement of offense, and that  is the discussion that Corsi and Roger Stone had after our committee  interviewed Mr. Stone. There is a lot of material that I think needs to be  shared with the special counsel because as more and more of these facts  come to the surface, it looks increasingly likely that witnesses committed  perjury before our committee, and that`s something the special counsel  needs to consider as well.

MADDOW: Yes, and in the plea agreement, one of the things they offer to  not prosecute him for if he pleads guilty to that charge of false  statements is anything related to perjury to a congressional committee,  with Mr. Corsi saying he`s rejecting that agreement, that means he`s  rejecting protection from prosecution for perjuring himself before your  committee and others.

SCHIFF: Yes.

MADDOW: Congressman Adam Schiff, top Democrat on the House Intelligence  Committee, I really appreciate you being here tonight, sir. Thanks. It`s  busy news night.

SCHIFF: Thank you.

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