MSNBC "The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Steve Cohen
Interview
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O`DONNELL: Only three presidents of the United States have been accused of federal crimes by a special prosecutor -- by a federal prosecutor of any kind while in office and Donald Trump is now one of them. Bill Clinton was accused of perjury and obstruction of justice by Special Prosecutor Kenneth Starr, and that was enough to get Bill Clinton impeached by the House of Representatives.
Richard Nixon was named an unindicted co-conspirator by Watergate Special Prosecutor Leon Jaworski and then the House Judiciary Committee voted approval of articles of impeachment against Richard Nixon, which then provoked Richard Nixon to be the one and only person who has resigned the presidency of the United States.
So what happens to Donald Trump? Now that he`s the third American president to be accused by federal prosecutors of committing crimes, will he now be the first American president accused by federal prosecutors of committing crimes whose crimes are then ignored by Congress?
Joining our discussion now, Democratic Congressman Steve Cohen of Tennessee. He`s a member of the House Judiciary Committee where impeachment proceedings begin. Congressman Cohen, your reaction to what we`ve learned today about the president of the United States in the Michael Cohen case?
REP. STEVE COHEN (D-TN), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: I think that what we`ve learned today is what many of us have known for at least two years and some for maybe 10 or 15 and that Donald Trump is a criminal enterprise, the Trump family is a criminal enterprise, and that most of the people he`s involved with like Michael Cohen and Manafort are shady folks. And it`s astonishing that they have taken the White House in the contrast that George Herbert Walker Bush, a man of distinction and class and character and this man, it just so manifest.
O`DONNELL: As the prosecutors of New York went as far as the Justice Department guidelines allowed them to, they are not allowed to charge the president of the United States formally with crimes, indict the president of the United States. That the remedy is left only to you in Congress according to the way the justice department sees this now, that given that those crimes have been outlined, is this enough reason for the House of Representatives to begin an impeachment investigation?
COHEN: We`re going to start investigations in many committees and particularly in the judiciary of Trump activities. We`re not going to start with impeachment. You know, I feel that he`s committed many impeachable offenses, and there`s no question, even doubt that broke the other day. He`s not exactly the most liberal guy, that he may be the most impeachable president ever.
But you got to have at least 20 Republicans to agree with you and you got to have information come out which can either be through Mueller or as I know Michael is concerned that might not come out, that may not come out. But it could come out through hearings in the Judiciary Committee, information that shows to Republicans that this man is an albatross and they need to jettison him or else, they`re going to just be get -- the wave in 2020 is going to be even greater. It`s going to be a wave that`s going to hit the Senate.
I think the proof is going to come out. They probably have recordings of Trump that Michael Cohen had. They probably have recordings of other people, the family members. And it`s going to be so clear that this has been a criminal enterprise from day one with the Russians and Trump, that the Republicans will jump off of the ship and say we`ve got to get rid of this guy.
O`DONNELL: So it`s been very clear --
COHEN: So we`ll have hearings. We`re going to have hearings that`s going to be like impeachment because it`s going to bring out the facts but actually--
O`DONNELL: Let me ask you. What does it take to get an impeachment hearing against this president? He`s accused of federal crimes by federal prosecutors in New York City. That makes him one of three presidents in history. Are the Democrats prepared to allow this to be the only president in history who gets accused of federal crimes like this who then does not face an impeachment hearing in the House of Representatives?
COHEN: I don`t think that will happen. I think -- but it`s going to have to be Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Nadler to be the leaders. Nothing gets scheduled in Judiciary Committee without Chairman Nadler, the chairman making it on the agenda. And he would not do that without consultation with the speaker and I`m sure the majority leader and Mr. Clyburn as well. At some point, the team will come together.
O`DONNELL: Is it the Democrat`s position, because I keep hearing this that Democrats will not take any action without the support of Republicans both in the House of Representatives and in the Senate and therefore, the Democrats are simply surrendering their own powers in the House of Representatives to the control of Republicans?
COHEN: I don`t think that`s the case, Lawrence. Because I think what it is, is we want to see some Republicans either have their eyes opened or their backbones reinstalled and come forth and show that they`re willing to at least shoulder some of the responsibility and be open to this. And I think --
O`DONNELL: And if they don`t because this is a party that does not shoulder responsibility under any circumstances? If they don`t, are the Democrats in Congress prepared to establish the precedent that presidents are allowed to commit federal crimes the way Donald Trump has been charged in New York with this federal crime, that Democrats would then establish that as an acceptable precedent by presidents not to be challenged by the opposing party in Congress?
COHEN: I can assure you that I will be on the inside urging that we take action and that we not wait too long and that we develop -- that the proof be developed and the facts be out there where the American public says that it`s just been too much. And I think you`re going to find some Republicans who are going to say their skin will come around.
And that`s what happened in Watergate. They realized he was a -- there was a cancer on the presidency. There`s a cancer on the presidency now or cancer in the White House, whatever John Dean`s terminology was but it exists again. And we should have this man come to have to respond and be impeached, but you don`t want to necessarily have it be before it`s so obvious to even members of the Republican party that have their own security to be concerned about.
O`DONNELL: Congressman Steve Cohen, really appreciate you joining us tonight. You have a very important position on the Judiciary Committee. We`re going to need to hear a lot more from you, especially when you take over the majority in January. Thank you very much for joining us on this important night.
COHEN: You`re welcome, Lawrence. And believe me, I`m simpatico with you but I`m part of the -- I`ve got to be part of the team and I`ve got to work with Jerry and Nancy.
O`DONNELL: I know how it works. Thank you very much, Congressman. Really appreciate it.
COHEN: Yes, you too.
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