MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Ted Lieu

Interview

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MATTHEWS:  Mimi, you have been great all night today.  I have been watching you all night.  Thank you so much for helping our shows tonight. 
 
And, Julia Ainsley, of course, you guys are the pros.
 
And, Ken and Barbara, stick with us. 
 
Tonight`s bombshell report is highly explosive, of course, and incredibly damaging to the president`s claim that the special counsel`s investigation is a hoax or a witch-hunt.  This is coming out of New York.  This is a home game for him. 
 
The feds up in New York are going after him, accusing him of directing, which is basically directing a crime.  In fact, New York federal prosecutors believe the president of the United States did direct Michael Cohen, according to today`s paper, their memo, to direct two federal offenses by paying two women -- we know who they are, Stormy and McDougal -
* for their silence about alleged affairs by, what it`s called, catch and kill. 
 
Again, federal prosecutors write that Cohen admitted with respect to both payments he acted in coordination -- and here`s the word -- and at the direction of Individual 1.  That`s Donald Trump. 
 
Additionally, the special counsel`s filing seems to undermine President Trump`s claim that he had nothing to do with Russia.  According to page four of the special counsel`s filing tonight, Michael Cohen made false and misleading statements concerning outreach to Russian officials.  Cohen had in fact conferred with Individual 1, believed to be President Trump, about contacting or -- the Russian government before reaching out to gauge Russia`s interest. 
 
In other words, they decided to get together, Trump and Manafort, to get together with the Russians, a meeting -- the meeting ultimately did not take place. 
 
Joining me right now is Congressman Ted Lieu, Democrat from California, member of the House Judiciary Committee, Natasha Bertrand, staff writer for "The Atlantic," and David Corn right here, Washington bureau chief for "Mother Jones." 
 
Congressman, thank you for joining us.
 
A lot of paper here tonight, but the one thing that jumped out at me is, the president of the United States, Individual 1, directed a crime. 
 
REP. TED LIEU (D), CALIFORNIA:  Thank you, Chris. 
 
When you look at what the prosecutors did in the Southern District of New York, they alleged that Donald Trump directed two campaign finance violations.  These are felonies.  And you can infer intent by looking at a defendant`s statements. 
 
So, I`m a former prosecutor.  And if you look at what Donald Trump said, he did not say, hey, I made these payments to Karen McDougal and Stormy Daniels because I thought it was perfectly fine.  He denied doing it at all.  And that`s because he knew it was illegal. 
 
So, right now, we have a sitting president of the United States who committed two felonies while running for president. 
 
MATTHEWS:  And it`s so intricate, Congressman.  If you look at the document today, the memorandum, the amount of paperwork and phony show organization creation, everything, it seems like they know that there was criminal intent here. 
 
LIEU:  Absolutely. 
 
Individual 1, who is Donald Trump, was mentioned over 20 times in these documents.  And it`s very clear Donald Trump was intimately involved with a lot of these decisions, with a lot of things that Michael Cohen was doing.  And the prosecutors are basically laying out that Michael Cohen brazenly violated the laws, and Donald Trump directed him to do so. 
 
MATTHEWS:  What about impeachment here?  When you look at, is this enough to bring charges?  Is this enough for hearings?  Is this enough for committee hearings by the House Judiciary Committee on this president`s behavior? 
 
LIEU:  So, I`m on the Judiciary Committee, and my view is that impeachment, like the power to declare war, is one of Congress` gravest responsibilities. 
 
It should never be our first option.  I think we need to wait for the special counsel investigation to conclude.  These were court filings that were done for sentencing purposes.  We don`t know how much special counsel Mueller knows about what`s going on with Russia and these other related activities, specifically at Donald Trump. 
 
We should wait for the investigation to conclude and then make a decision then. 
 
MATTHEWS:  When do you think that would come?  Give me a time frame right now.  Here we are right before the holidays.  Congress is going to be in the 3rd of January. 
 
LIEU:  Right. 
 
MATTHEWS:  You`re ready for business pretty early.  When do you see the Judiciary Committee getting started in looking at these charges? 
 
LIEU:  We get subpoena power on January 3. 
 
There is something very telling in the Michael Cohen sentencing filing by special counsel Mueller`s office.  They state that he gave information on Russia-related matters core to their investigation.  That means special counsel Mueller understands full well that his core investigation is Russia collusion, that these other things, like obstruction of justice, perjury, campaign finance violations, they are tangential.
 
But he would not have said that if he did not intend to deliver on his core mission.  I think that`s going to happen some time next year. 
 
MATTHEWS:  Congressman Lieu, thank you very much for joining us this Friday night.

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