NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Jerry Nadler
Interview
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CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. Turning now to the Russia investigation and the big bombshell of the week, Michael Cohen's admission that President Trump's involvement in his Moscow Tower project was deeper and lasted much longer than Cohen had testified to Congress about. The guilty plea by President Trump's former lawyer could help us understand some of what we saw in 2016. It could explain why Mr. Trump, early on, had incentive to embrace Vladimir Putin during the campaign. It could explain why Mr. Trump called for giving Putin relief from sanctions over his annexation of Crimea from Ukraine. And it could explain why the Republican platform was stripped of a proposal to give lethal aid to Ukraine. What it certainly does is place President Trump closer to the center of the investigation of his campaign's ties to Russia. Joining me now is Democratic Congressman Jerrold Nadler, who will lead the Judiciary Committee in the next Congress. Congressman Nadler, welcome back to Meet the Press, sir.
REP. JERROLD NADLER:
Good to be here.
CHUCK TODD:
Before I get to some of the news of the week, I would like you to reflect a moment. What do you believe the enduring legacy will be of President Bush?
REP. JERROLD NADLER:
Well, President Bush was a patriot and a, a good pres -- a good person. I believe his, his enduring legacy is that he managed, from the American end, the dissolution of the Soviet empire. You know, when major empires fall, the most heavily armed empire in the world at that point, usually, there's wars and cataclysms associated with it. But I believe the lion's share of the credit for, for that not happening, for our avoiding cataclysm, is Mikhail Gorbachev. But a major share of that credit also goes to George Bush.
CHUCK TODD:
Very well said there. Congressman, I want to start with Michael Cohen. He pled guilty to lying to Congress about the Trump Organization's effort to build a Trump Tower in Moscow back in 2015, 2016. This was happening at the same time that Donald Trump was running for president.
Here's what a former federal prosecutor, Ken White, observed in The Atlantic. And I'm curious if you agree. "This conclusion, at least, is inescapable. The president, who has followed this drama obsessively, knew that his personal lawyer was lying to Congress about his business activities and stood by while it happened." Do you agree with that assessment? And does that look like obstruction of justice to you?
REP. JERROLD NADLER:
Well, I do agree with that assessment. And you know, we have a president who lies incessantly to the American people about big matters and small matters, who surrounds himself with people who lie incessantly to the American people. And the key fact now is that the time when he can get away with lying to the American people all the time and evading accountability is, is coming to an end. And I do think that this is a very serious matter. And among other things, the fact that he, that he was lying to the American people about doing business in Russia and that the Kremlin knew he was lying gave the Kremlin a hold over him. And one question we have now is, does the Kremlin still have hold over him, because of other lies that they know about?
CHUCK TODD:
So the fact that the Kremlin, which overnight, has confirmed that there were some emails and a phone call between the Trump Organization and the Kremlin, and we only find out about it now, you believe that that is proof that there might be leverage?
REP. JERROLD NADLER:
There certainly was leverage during that, during the campaign period and until recently. Because they knew that he was lying. They knew that he had major business dealings, or that Cohen, on his behalf, had major business dealings in Moscow during the campaign, and that he was lying about that. There may be other things that they know that give, that give them leverage. One question has always been, why was the president so obsequious to Putin from the beginning of the campaign up to the present day? And it may be that it's because the Kremlin has leverage over the president, which is a terrible thing, if true.
CHUCK TODD:
Michael Cohen has pled guilty to lying. Why should he be believed now? If he was lying then, why do we know he's credible now? I know it's always tough, when you get witnesses that flip. But if, if he's assisting you in your work and the House Democrats down the road, I assume you hope that he does, how will you know if you can trust him?
REP. JERROLD NADLER:
Well, I think that we'll know a lot more when we see pres-- when we see Mr. Mueller's report. He knows a lot more than we do at this point. And the fact that he's been able to show that all these people, whether it's Manafort or Gates or Flynn or Cohen, all the people around the president were lying, I assume means he's got real documentary and other proof of that. And we'll see that in due course.
CHUCK TODD:
You have openly talked about holding up the government funding vote until the Mueller protection bill has either -- a vote is held on it or not. Is that still your current stance? And is that the stance you want Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer to take?
REP. JERROLD NADLER:
Well, my current stance, and I think our stance, generally, is that we must do whatever we can to protect the Mueller investigation from interference with -- by the president. We are dependent on that investigation to get to the bottom of the corruption in the campaign, of the Russian role in the campaign, of the Trump campaign, of the president's role in colluding with the Russians, if he did. We know his campaign did. The question is, did he, personally? So we have to do whatever we can to protect that investigation.
CHUCK TODD:
Very quickly, former F.B.I. director James Comey's been subpoenaed to appear before your committee. Right now, you're ranking member there. He's fighting the subpoena. He wants to do it. He was -- voluntarily do it in public, on the record. Chairman Goodlatte has said he would provide a transcript within 24 hours, videotape it, but not have it live. Is that enough for you?
REP. JERROLD NADLER:
No. The Republicans, in this particular investigation, have a history of having these, these in-camera interviews and then selectively leaking portions to -- of the interview to, to give distorted view to the public of what happened. Let Comey testify in public. There's nothing, there's no military secrets here. He wants to testify. He ought to be able to. We ought to have accountability and openness to the American public. And there's no reason for the secrecy that Mr. Goodlatte wants.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Congressman Nadler, the ranking Democrat now on Judiciary, soon to be chairman of Judiciary, thanks for coming on and sharing your views, sir. Much appreciated.
REP. JERROLD NADLER:
Thank you.
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