Fox News "Hannity" - Transcript: Interview with Reps. Jim Jordan and Mark Meadows

Interview

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HANNITY: When we talk about process crimes, wouldn't it be normal when you look at the date 2016 incoming national security advisor talking to his Russian counterpart. This is way over the line.

Look, I'm going to go through this slowly. If you believe in this constitutional republic, equal justice under the law, application of our laws, you ought to be very concerned tonight and outraged. General Flynn's entire life has been put in limbo for an entire year for this? I have read the entire report. They even used the Logan Act, and actually rarely ever used or invoked.

But Hillary and the Espionage Act, he has lost his House because he couldn't afford the attorneys. He had to sell his house. His life's work, 33 years of serving his country, washed down the drain for this? Reputation destroyed for this?

Nobody in the FBI thought this man lied. Comey didn't think so. McCabe didn't think. Strzok of all people, he didn't think so, and he interviewed Lieutenant General Flynn. Thirty-three years of service, five years in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. And this is the treatment? This is the thanks this country gives him?

This is what -- this is how we treat people? What kind of justice system is this? His house nearly faced bankruptcy, literally and his world crashes before him and his entire family, and I would bet any amount of money that the only reason he signed this deal was -- well, it's the same old system.

Well, we might have to go after your son worked with you and, you know, then we are going to invoke the Logan Act, which nobody invokes to go after him. So he could have made, instead of serving his country in the private sector a lot more money. But, now, he has to sell his house, literally fall on the sword for his family.

And don't forget, we know that they got through what a lot of this information, through what? We knew he was the victim of illegal surveillance, illegal unmasking, illegal leaking of raw intelligence. What about the people involved in those crimes? His rights were violated at every level.

Now, this is a disgrace and this is what we have been telling you. It's the glaring example of a two-tiered justice system in America. In Mueller's sentencing memo, it says, quote: Senior government leaders should be held to the highest standards.

Can we start with Hillary Clinton and James Comey? Because we have a long list of Democrats and Trump haters who have lied under oath before Congress and have faced no consequences.

For example, long-time Clinton aide Cheryl Mills, Huma Abedin lied when they told the FBI investigators they had no knowledge of Hillary's private email except they used it, either DOJ official Bruce Ohr, Fusion GPS founder Glenn Simpson. They -- of course, one of them was lying due to their contradictory testimony. Nobody was held hostage like this for a year. Dirty dossier author Christopher Steele, his entire dossier has been debunked, he lied to the FBI, was fired for lying to the FBI. But he was still working with the Justice Department and Bruce Ohr to get to special counsel Mueller.

James Clapper lied under oath about the National Surveillance Program. So too did John Brennan also likely lying under oath about leaking.

And don't forget, James Comey himself lied under oath when he said the report about the Clinton investigation had not been written before she was interviewed. Lie. That was being written in May of 2016. They interviewed her in July of 2016.

Comey second in command at the FBI. Andrew McCabe fired because of his pathetic pattern of lying. So, you are going to end up with something like this in his life?

Where are the federal cases against any of these people? And that's the short list. Are charges going to be brought to all of those people? When are the screws going to be turned so they composed? Don't hold your breath.

And according to Michael Goodwin, President Trump is now preparing and he should be preparing for all-out political war for good reason. Robert Mueller and his team of partisan Democrats, even Clinton attorneys and a pit bull that lost 9-0 in the Supreme Court cost tens of thousands of people their job, Andrew Weissmann, and put four people in jail overturned by the Fifth Circuit, they have set out to disrupt, discredit, and destroy the presidency of Donald J. Trump.

No matter how many lives are ruined in the process. You can't get him on the crime. Let's get him on a process crime. Let's set a perjury trap.

Now, we have a lot more all throughout the hour. We will check in with Congressman Mark Meadows and Congressman Jim Jordan and Matt Gaetz.

Also, let this monologue be a warning for anyone thinking about traveling through Mexico tonight to cross the southern border illegally. A "Hannity" investigation, it is not easy, it is not safe. And you are literally risking your life. If we had a wall up that people knew they could never get in, lives would be saved.

Look at this from the A.P. In the past four years, approximately 4,000 migrants have gone missing, 4,000, during their trek through Mexico. And The A.P. is also reporting that the true number is likely, quote: their words, much higher and, quote, bodies may be lost in the desert and families may not report missing loved ones who were migrating illegally.

Cartels have long scary history of kidnapping and slaving, murdering undocumented migrants traveling to the U.S. 2010, a mass grave containing 72 dead migrants was discovered. They were all murdered by a dangerous gang cartel called the Zetas Cartel. And just this year, a hundred migrants from the caravan, including children, have been kidnapped.

That same cartel reportedly responsible for those who do successfully cross the border illegally, the risks continue even within the United States, as they trek through rural areas of Texas, north of the border. Hundreds of bodies have been found. Many dying of dehydration after getting lost in the desert. In one Texas county alone, over 550 bodies have been recovered since 2009.

We talk about family separation. What about permanent family separation with people dying?

Now, meanwhile, look at this video, fencing along the southern border poses a serious risk for illegal immigrants lest we build a sufficient wall. Shocking video from Arizona shows a suspected smuggler, look at this, tossing children over an 18-foot border wall. Others below attempting to catch the kids -- look at this -- on the other side. Take a look at that video. One as young as 2 years old.

In Tijuana, where the majority of the 10,000 plus members of the migrant caravan are indefinitely stuck in limbo, the conditions there are horrific. They face squalid camp sites, insufficient facilities, rampant disease, a third of the migrants are now being treated for health-related issues. Tijuana's health department is reporting three confirmed cases of tuberculosis, four cases of HIV and AIDS. Four case of chickenpox and a hepatitis outbreak.

And, yesterday, dozens of migrants attempted to sneak across the border near Tijuana scaling a 10-foot metal fence. That's the one probably Chuck Schumer wants. Others were able to squeeze through gaps in the fencing near the coast. Most were apprehended.

I have no doubt the majority of migrants headed to the U.S. are merely in search of a better life and more opportunity. That's why if a wall is properly built, it will secure people on both sides and the door can be built and we can reform our immigration system. But, be warned, while immigrating into the U.S. is illegal and not easy, coming across illegally can take your live through the southern border, very harsh, risky, deadly.

And, we often report the serious consequences illegal immigration poses to those already living in the U.S. We have a briefing I witnessed from Texas Governor Rick Perry -- 642,000 crimes committed at the hands of illegal immigrants in a seven-year period in Texas alone.

Keep in mind, every single illegal immigrant that crosses our border costs you the taxpayers around 70 grand. And last year's total tax bill was a whopping $135 billion. A massive border wall would cost just a fraction of that.

And not only would Americans literally -- would be given important opportunities here to control our borders, but it would be a deterrent for people that would take that treacherous journey through Mexico -- simple solution to a complex, costly, dangerous problem. It's time for the border wall to be fully funded and right now.

But we're going to have more on that later in the show. We first get back to our top story as we are joined by North Carolina Congressman Mark Meadows, Ohio Congressman Jim Jordan, both leaders of the Freedom Caucus.

All right. Jim, I will start with you tonight.

REP. JIM JORDAN, R-OH: Sure.

HANNITY: So, this is what we get.

JORDAN: Yes.

HANNITY: A man's life ruined. All of these other people have committed crimes that we know of. The information obtained on General Flynn was obtained illegally.

JORDAN: Yes.

HANNITY: OK. They put his family through hell. He has to sell his house. They threaten his family or he falls on the sword and signs something he knows is not true so they don't go after his family. Is that justice in America?

JORDAN: No, it's not. And your monologue was right on target, Sean.

Remember -- James Comey, director of the FBI, fired. Deputy Director McCabe lied three times under oath, fired. Chief counsel at the FBI demoted, Jim Baker, demoted and then left. FBI counsel Lisa Page demoted and left. And deputy head of counterintelligence Peter Strzok demoted and then fired.

But even those five people thought Mike Flynn didn't lie when he was interviewed by the FBI. Only Bob Mueller did and now this is what happens. So, we've got to keep this in context.

The top people at the FBI all demoted, left, or fired who have launched and ran the Clinton investigation, launched and ran the Russia investigation, put the fake dossier in front of the FISA court to get a warrant to spy on the Trump campaign, even they didn't think Mike Flynn lied when he was being interviewed by the FBI. And now, Bob Mueller is saying he should get the most lenient sentence possible but they still have the information they gave him. We'll find out what that is when we get the unredacted version of what Catherine was referring to tonight.

HANNITY: Listen, but I'm looking, seriously, Mark Meadows through all of this here. And what they're saying here, days prior to the FBI's interview, the defendant, The Washington Post published a story alleging he had spoken with Russia's ambassador to the United States on December 29th. Wouldn't it be a normal process for an incoming director such as General Flynn to have conversations with his soon-to-be counterparts about important issues, even a change of policy that might be coming or different points of view that they may have considering we have diametrically opposed views between Obama and President Trump?

REP. MARK MEADOWS, R-NC: Well, it would be a natural occurrence. And I can tell you, there are Democrats and Republicans on the Hill that probably have had a lot more conversations with the Russian ambassador than Mike Flynn ever thought about having. And, yet, here we are tonight looking at a three-star general being held guilty for missing a day and perhaps not recalling something.

But here's the other thing that we have got to remember, Sean, is this, I've got looked at this report and, yes, everybody is going to focus on what has been redacted. But let's look at what's not in there. There is no suggestion that Michael Flynn had anything to do with collusion. He was with the transition team. He was part of the campaign. And, yet, there is no mention of collusion.

I think it's good news for President Trump tonight that this is what has come down to, even though they said he substantially cooperated, I think he substantially cooperated to say that there was no collusion and we can look at it with that in mind.

HANNITY: Well, let me look -- Jim Jordan, I'll read to you. The Post query whether the defendant's actions violated the Logan Act. The Logan Act is 18 USC 953. It's all but rarely federal statute prohibiting private diplomacy with federal nations.

It is -- I think maybe, what, five or six times it's been used and most instances, the people get off innocent. So, this is what they are suggesting in this and that he was speaking, you know, as part of the president's incoming team, transition team, that they had spoken to the defendant, that he denied speaking to the Russian ambassador about sanctions, which the president had already said publicly if I'm not mistaken that in fact, oh, there's no -- you know, that's probably going to be what our policy is. That's it? This is what this is about?

JORDAN: No, I know. And when you look at the larger framework, of course, first of all, he's a national security advisor. Of course, he's going to be talking to foreign dignitaries. And that's going to be -- and he's going to be doing that in the transition and you are exactly right what the president said earlier.

But I keep trying to bring this back into a context. The guy we need to talk to, Sean, while the left is making all kinds of hay about this story tonight about Mr. Flynn, the guy we need to be talking to is Rod Rosenstein. It has been 10 and a half weeks since it was reported that he talked to subordinates about wearing a wire and invoking the 25th Amendment. And Mark and I and other members of Congress have yet to ask him one single question since that became public.

That needs to happen in the next 26 days before Nancy Pelosi is speaker of the house. That's what I'm focused on. This is news tonight, I get, we've walked through this, but that's the real thing we have to focus on in the last weeks of this Congress.

HANNITY: Let me go back to Mark Meadows.

Congressman, if you go back to the House Intelligence Committee report, Comey testified that FBI agents saw no physical indications of deception. Now, that includes McCabe. That includes Comey. And that includes Peter Strzok of all people that interviewed him.

They didn't think he lied. And, you know, and this sends a very bad message to everybody. And that is, boy, you better never talk to the FBI. Even though you might be inclined because have you -- I grew up with reverence for this great institution. You better never -- unless you are a Democrat then you can say anything you want. Then you are covered.

That's what I take out of it.

MEADOWS: Well, I think, here's -- it's not just in the House Intel. Jim and I have been part of testimony and briefings and questioning where that was reiterated not once, not twice, but three different times that they didn't believe that Mike Flynn lied.

So, here's what we have got. We've got a situation where we are a year and a half into this investigation. It started back in May of 2017 and here we are in December. If this is the best we've got coming out of Mueller's investigation, it is time that he writes the report, closes it out, and let the American people focus on what is important to them, which is really about making sure they keep their jobs and the economy and what the president has been delivering on.

So, it's time for Mueller to bring it to a close. Hopefully, this is the beginning of the end but it can come none too soon for most Americans.

HANNITY: It's amazing to me, Jim, as I read through this. Quoting The Washington Post, I'll give you one example, and they talk again about 18 USC 953, that's the Logan Act, and subsequent to -- they literally quote "The Washington Post", in an article. Prior to the defendant's FBI interview, members of president-elect's Trump transition team, I think they might be talking about Vice President Pence publicly stated that they had spoken to the defendant and he denied speaking to the Russian ambassador about the sanctions.

Look, I don't know what your guys' lives are like. I can tell you what my life is like. The number of conversations I have on a daily basis, if you ask me who I talked to yesterday, I will not be able to recall with any sense of certainty.

Most people live busy lives. I was there, I watched this. This was as busy as a time as anything else and I'm sure there are a lot of pleasantries back and forth. We're going to work on a lot of issues together, which would seem perfectly appropriate to me.

JORDAN: Yes. Look, and if they thought he said something that wasn't accurate, why not circle back with him. After all, he served our country, was a three star general. Why not circle back with him? And as we pointed out several times, the FBI, these key people, the same FBI who I think took something to the FISA court that they didn't check out themselves, those same people said we didn't think he was misleading us at all.

But if there was some kind of question, give -- circle back to the general and find out, instead of using it to get the information that looks like Mr. Mueller was trying to get.

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: Mark, go ahead.

MEADOWS: One other thing that we've got to realize, Jim and I have been in these interviews and testimony, there is a whole lot more that we can look at in terms of the conversations that FBI agents and previous agents have had that call into question whether they are being truthful or not than what we see with General Flynn. And this Logan Act, it's a relic of a bygone era. It was meant and designed to say, we want to make sure you are speaking on behalf of a legitimate government. It's time that we look at this in a very different light.

HANNITY: Yes. I think we have to look at in a different light.

I just gave you, Mark, a list. We just laid out. Cheryl Mills, Huma Abedin, all of these people who lied before Congress, all of them. We know that they lied.

Then we have Hillary Clinton. James Comey wrote this exoneration in early May with Peter Strzok. He lied and said he wasn't beginning the writing of that exoneration. That's a lie by him. By the way, he also might have issues with the Espionage Act when he leaked information to the professor friend for the very purpose of getting it to the New York Times so that might spark the appointment of a special counsel. He should have the same legal jeopardies.

Hillary's, you know, mom and pop shop bathroom closet server, we believe at least six foreign entities hacked into it. We know it's a violation of the Espionage Act. We know that her aides emailed that very site and had email addresses from that site. I don't see any of them going through what a 33- year veteran, five years of combat veteran has gone through, guy that served his country.

Do you? Why is there this double standard?

MEADOWS: Well, there is a double standard it means if you are associated with the Trump team, the Trump campaign and the Trump administration, you come under greater scrutiny than a lot of other people that have been here and playing the game here in Washington, D.C. That must come to an end. It will come to an end.

Guys like Jim and I are willing to hold them accountable. But enough with the talk. Let's get Rod Rosenstein in here and make sure that he testifies and actually tells the American people what he said or didn't say.

HANNITY: Well, I have a tape. We played it the other night, Jim Jordan, of James Comey literally saying well, I lie, you know, I have lied and McCabe lied. But you can still lie and be a good person. The exact words of James Comey.

JORDAN: Sean, James Comey was saying he didn't want to come testify in a closed door session with Congress because of leaks. This is the guy who leaked the information to the New York Times to create the momentum for the special counsel. So, come on.

Mark is exactly right. You are exactly right. There is two standards, one for us regular folk, a different set if you are part of the political establishment. That's what drives Americans crazy.

HANNITY: All right. Thank you both. Freedom Caucus members Mark Meadows and Jim Jordan, we appreciate it.

JORDAN: Thank you.

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