CBS "Face the Nation" - Transcript: Foreign Affairs
Interview
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MARGARET BRENNAN: What do you make of the President's remarks?
SENATOR RAND PAUL (R-Kentucky/@RandPaul): Well, you know the crown prince, his brother, made a phone call to Khashoggi, the dissident that was killed and dismembered, and that phone call was to tell Khashoggi, hey, it's fine. You can go to the consulate no one will harm you. Well, you know, we have the crown prince's brother making that phone call. I think we have other intelligence that may link brother's phone calls back to the crown prince. I think the evidence is overwhelming that the crown prince was involved and so no I don't think we can sweep this under the rug. The thing about sanctions is that I think sanctions are pretending to do something without really doing anything. Most of these people are in prison other than the crown prince. But the crown prince runs the country and we deal with him. If we put sanctions on people who are in prison, are we really doing anything to punish them they're already in prison. We need to punish who ordered this, who's in charge, and really the only thing they understand over there is strength. I think they will see sanctions as weakness on the part of the President and if the President wants to act strongly he should cut off the arms sale not only because of the killing but until they stop bombing civilian populations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Secretary Pompeo told Saudi Arabia three weeks ago stop bombing civilian populations. Since then Saudi Arabia has bombed cities two hundred times, they're not listening--
MARGARET BRENNAN: You're talking about in Yemen.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: --they're indiscriminately bombing civilians. Yes in Yemen.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You're talking about in Yemen. I should point out Saudi Arabia disputes the reporting that there is a-- there was a phone call between Prince Khaled and Jamal Khashoggi. They say that's just not true. But given the CIA assessment overall that says there was a role, do you think this needs to trigger some other kind of change in policy? You're on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, are you going to try to block--
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: --the appointment of the appointed ambassador?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Realize the Saudis have told us a lot of things that were untrue. They told us it was a fistfight that went bad--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: --they have told us he was alive, they had a body double there to try to trick people into believing he was still alive. So the Saudis have been duplicitous since the very beginning. Do we need to do more? Yes, but at the very least we need to quit selling arms to people who are lying to us--
MARGARET BRENNAN: The President says that that's exactly why though, those arms sales are exactly why the relationship is important and he's not going to hurt the economic benefits.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Here's my point. The arms sales don't make us safer. They make us less safe. When we sell arms to a foreign country, it should not ever be for jobs, it should be for our national security. The Saudis' involving us in their war in Yemen is a disaster. Seventeen million people live on the edge of starvation. If we get involved in another civil war in the Middle East that's not good for our national security. That just drains our natural resources--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Can you do anything to stop it though?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Yeah. Quit arming the Saudis. The Saudis are bombing--
MARGARET BRENNAN: But in Congress--
SENATOR RAND PAUL: --to the tune of tens of thousands of bombs in Yemen.
MARGARET BRENNAN: --is there anything you can do? Because the President says he's going to continue selling.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Right. Yeah, I've introduced resolution after resolution to stop selling arms. We've done it twice and it's a privilege resolution meaning they can't prevent me from getting a vote.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: First time I got twenty-something votes. The second time with the help of a Democrat Senator Chris Murphy we got forty-seven votes. If we have another vote I think we could almost get to a veto proof majority, but guess what? They are not bringing any arms sales up right now--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: --because they know we might beat them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What about the ambassador who's been nominated here, General John Abizaid? You're going vote to confirm him?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: I-- I want to meet with him and I don't think that that really-- my first impulse is not-- that's not the way to sort of punish Saudi Arabia, by blocking an ambassador. I'm a big believer in dialogue and even with this I wouldn't stop trading oil with Saudi Arabia--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: --but I would stop selling them arms. That's the first thing I would do. That doesn't disrupt trade, doesn't disrupt diplomacy. It just sends them a very strong message, we're not going to keep fueling your-- your war in Yemen, which is a total disaster.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: And everybody saying there's no military solution and, yet, nobody's willing to do anything that would actually force Saudi Arabia to stop the war. If we were not refuel-- not refueling, if we were not providing spare parts for their American-made planes--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: --the war would be over in a matter of months because you have to have a continuous supply of spare parts and people repair your planes and train your pilots. If we quit doing that, Saudi Arabia would quit bombing them within three or four months.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to get you on domestic policy. The President has put forward a-- a-- a proposal that has some bipartisan support on criminal justice reform. There's no guarantee it's going to be put to vote in the lame duck session and some of your fellow Republicans like Tom Cotton say this is just about letting felons out of jail. How do you respond?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: You know I've been-- I've been working on criminal justice reform with Republicans and Democrats for six or seven years. I met with President Obama several times on this, bipartisan groups. We have a real chance to pass this now. With President Trump being in favor of-- of this criminal justice reform, he came out publicly for it really it only depends on one Senator now. If Senator Mitch McConnell, from my home state, will allow a vote it gets sixty-five to seventy votes in the Senate. It will be one of the most popular things to ever pass. Is it a jailbreak? No. It's saying people that have you know a nonviolent drug offense that we don't keep them in jail for life. It's saying that ninety-five percent of people that get out of prison--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: --when they get out of prison, do we want them to keep committing crimes or we should train them for jobs? Should we use programs to try to test whether or not we can teach people not to recommit crimes? And really do nonviolent people need to be in jail sometimes for life? We should--
MARGARET BRENNAN: So how--
SENATOR RAND PAUL: --reevaluate this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So how do you force a vote? You're running out of time here.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Well, it-- it's all up to one person. Senator McConnell has the ability to call any vote he wants to anytime. He has promised in the past that he would allow this vote if there was popularity for it. President Trump is behind it. In my state eighty-six percent of the people--
MARGARET BRENNAN: You're suggesting he's choosing not to?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: --are behind this. The Fraternal Order of Police-- Fraternal Order of Police are behind it. Two thousand pastors, and I-- I didn't get your follow up.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I said it-- it-- it seems you're suggesting that he does not want to.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: There have been some articles. I haven't talked to him--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: --directly about it. The last time I talked to him about it he said he was open to allowing a vote after the election.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Now with the President Trump's all-- all in on this I really hope we can get a vote but it's really up to Senator McConnell. But it's very, very popular in Kentucky and very, very popular with people who support President Trump so I hope he allows a vote.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will watch for that. Thank you very much, Senator Paul.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Thank you.
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