CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview With New York Senator Chuck Schumer

Interview

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TAPPER: Hello. I'm Jake Tapper in Washington, where the state of our union is honoring our veterans.

While we here in the U.S. express our appreciation to those who serve our nation, President Trump is in Paris gathering with other world leaders to mark 100 years since the end of World War I.

But the president's trip abroad has not been without controversy.

This morning, French President Emmanuel Macron delivered what appeared to be a scathing rebuke of the president's America-first agenda, as well as other forms of nationalism, saying in front of the international gathering -- quote -- "Nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism."

Saturday, President Trump drew swift condemnation after canceling a planned visit to honor American soldiers who died in the war, the White House citing inclement weather. The White House explained the weather made it unsafe to helicopter and logistically challenging for the president's motorcades to make the 50-mile drive outside Paris.

But, as images appeared of other world leaders honoring their fallen soldiers, veterans and former White House aides criticized the American commander in chief for not having a backup plan to attend the event.

President Trump also facing a slew of unfolding crises back home, a recount already under way for three races in Florida, deadly wildfires ravaging California, and warnings from top Democrats about a possible constitutional crisis after his decision to fire Attorney General Jeff Sessions and replace him with a critic of the special counsel.

Joining me now is Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer.

Leader Schumer, Minority Leader Schumer, I want to start with Tuesday night's election, big Democratic gains in the House and some warning signs for Republicans in the suburbs. But Republicans in this Senate look poised to grow their majority, flipping three blue seats in Missouri, North Dakota and Indiana, as well as potentially in Florida.

Why didn't the Democratic message resonate in those states?

SCHUMER: Well, let me say this, Jake.

The election was a great victory for Democrats. Taking back the House with up to 35 seats is huge, seven governorships, lots of legislative races, lower state legislative races that we picked up seats.

So, Trump and the Republicans are trying to say, well, but the Senate showed that we really won.

Nothing could be further from the truth. First, if you would have told us a couple of years ago that we'd be as close as we are, people would say we're crazy. They were saying we would lose eight to 10 seats and even the 40 votes in the Senate.

We had 10 states where Donald Trump won the election in 2016. Our senators one in six of those 10, with one still, Florida still in contest. And in the three states that carried Trump to victory, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan, not only did Democratic senators win by double digits in two of them, but Republicans told Trump he couldn't even set foot in those states because he was so unpopular.

And so this is a great victory. For Donald Trump to claim, because he won a Senate race in North Dakota or Indiana or Missouri, states he won by 19, 19 and 36 percent, that shows how weak -- I would be very worried if I were Donald Trump and the Republicans about the 2020 elections, if all they can claim is they won in North Dakota.

We greatly regret the loss of wonderful people, great senators like Heitkamp and Donnelly and McCaskill, but hardly a victory in those three states is any vindication for the Republican -- for the rout of the Republicans.

TAPPER: Well, with all due respect, sir, is it not true -- I mean, I have talked to a number of Democrats in those states who say, this is a warning sign for Democrats when it comes to the 2020 presidential election.

[09:05:03]

Kavanaugh and the caravan, they say, those messages from Republicans, those message from President Trump enabled people, even like Claire McCaskill, who ran a pretty flawless campaign, relatively speaking, in Missouri, to lose decisively.

Do Democrats not have to come up with a better response when it comes to border security. And did you not get outplayed when it came to the Kavanaugh nomination, not just the fact that he's on the court, but also the fact of the politics of it?

SCHUMER: Well, the bottom line is, the Kavanaugh dispute, I think, helped us more than it hurts us.

It's one of the reasons we won the House so decisively. It's one of the reasons we won governorships in so many other states, because suburban voters who are traditionally Republican came to our side.

And if the coalition, the old Democratic coalition, can add suburban voters to it and continue to focus on issues like health care, which matter to working-class Americans throughout the country, we're going to win.

West Virginia, the state that Trump won by more votes than any other, other than Wyoming, Joe Manchin, despite President Trump's efforts, won.

TAPPER: Yes.

SCHUMER: And he focused exclusively on health care.

And the issue of health care, of infrastructure and jobs will resonate in rural America, in -- or suburban America and in urban America. And the way it helped us in 2018, it's going to help us here.

I think the president lost more votes because of the Kavanaugh issue than gained throughout the country.

TAPPER: Let's talk about the Florida recount going on right now. The Florida Senate election is moving in that direction, as are two other races there.

Broward County, Florida, has been plagued with election problems, not just this year, but in the past. The election supervisor has been accused in the past of illegally destroying ballots in a previous election, that the county already missed a reporting deadline this year set in state law, and a judge needed to step in.

Isn't it reasonable for people to have concerns about what's going on in Broward County?

SCHUMER: Well, look, every vote should be counted. And President Trump and Rick Scott are so afraid of every vote being counted, because they think Scott will lose if that happens, that they're interfering.

They allege massive fraud. That's what Scott said. His own Republican officials in Florida said there is no fraud. When you vote by mail, it takes a while to count the ballots, because some of the mail votes come in on Election Day.

And that's a process that should be transparent. There have been Republicans and Democrats in those election places. No one has alleged any fraud. And what -- now we have a recount.

And my guess, Trump and particularly Scott will try to interfere in that recount, because they don't want the votes counted. We Democrats, we want every single vote counted. That's every American's right, no matter who they vote for. We're willing to abide by the outcome if every vote is fairly counted and nothing is interfered with.

TAPPER: Right.

SCHUMER: We believe that Bill Nelson will be reelected senator if every vote is counted. And that's what Trump and Scott are so scared of.

TAPPER: Well, I take your point that there hasn't been any fraud or theft proven or even evidence introduced.

But do you not understand why some people looking at Broward County say, boy, that place is a mess, it's run by Democrats, and there have been election problems for a long time in that county, so I have concerns about how legitimate the count is?

SCHUMER: Well, wait a second.

Saying it's going to slowly is one thing. Saying you have concerns about how legitimate the count is, is another, because, as you just said, no one has said there's any fraud here. And the paramount issue here, the paramount issue is having every vote counted, even if it takes a little longer. We should not be rushed into doing this, particularly in an election that is so darn close.

And one other point, Jake. Even in Georgia, the secretary of state recused himself because he was on the ballot for governor. Scott should recuse himself immediately. He has a self-interest in jaundicing this election. He should be out of it altogether.

TAPPER: The president on Wednesday fired the attorney general, Jeff Sessions, and appointed Matt Whitaker as acting attorney general.

This has prompted even some Senate Republicans, such as Susan Collins and Jeff Flake, to call for this legislation to make sure the president can't fire special counsel Robert Mueller.

You have supported this legislation for months. How far are you willing to go to support it? Are you willing to risk a government shutdown to force this into the agenda, that President Trump has to sign it?

SCHUMER: Well, let me say first the appointment of Mr. Whitaker should concern every American, Democrat, Republican, liberal, conservative, who believes in rule of law and justice.

He's already prejudged the Mueller situation. If he -- if he stays there, he will create a constitutional crisis by inhibiting Mueller or firing Mueller, even -- so, Congress has to act, has to act.

Now, here's what he said. This is amazing. This fellow Whitaker, the new acting attorney general, said that there -- at one point that there was no proof that Russia interfered in our elections, when 17 intelligence agencies said we (sic) did.

[09:10:13]

He has already outlined how to strangle the Mueller investigation, cut their funding and other things.

So, we Democrats intend to do two things. First, today, I am sending a letter, along with Leader Pelosi and some of the other Democrats who are ranking members of their committees in both houses, to the chief ethics officer of the Justice Department, asking him to issue guidelines: Should Whitaker recused himself from anything involving Mueller?

He issued guidelines like that with Jeff Sessions, and Jeff Sessions recused himself. Whitaker should.

But, second, if that doesn't happen, we Democrats, House and Senate, will attempt to add to must-pass legislation, in this case the spending bill, legislation that would prevent Mr. Whitaker from interfering with the Mueller investigation.

That legislation has had bipartisan support. Two Democrats and two Republicans introduced it. As you mentioned, the -- there are a number of Republicans who have spoken out that we cannot allow Whitaker to interfere with the Mueller investigation.

TAPPER: Right.

SCHUMER: So, there's no reason that legislation shouldn't pass...

TAPPER: But...

SCHUMER: ... and be added to the bill.

TAPPER: But the majority leader of the Senate, Mitch McConnell, has expressed zero desire or willingness to have this be voted on in the full Senate.

You have the power, because of the 60-vote threshold, to force this legislation into the government spending bill or some other mechanism if you risk shutting down the government.

Are Democrats willing to do that? Are you willing to risk shutting down the government and not signing a government spending bill unless the Mueller legislation is included?

SCHUMER: Look, I believe our Republic -- there will be enough of our Republican colleagues who will join us.

There's no reason we shouldn't add this and avoid a constitutional crisis. And so that is our position. If that doesn't happen, we will see what happens down the road.

TAPPER: And I don't mean to be skeptical...

SCHUMER: That's OK.

TAPPER: ... but why would you believe Republicans are going to join you on this?

(CROSSTALK)

SCHUMER: Well, we have -- as I said, we have bipartisan legislation, and a number of Republicans have spoken out.

I have spoken to some. People are really concerned about this. Better to avoid a constitutional crisis before it happens.

And Mitch McConnell said he saw no reason because there's no interference. With Whitaker, there is every reason to believe there will be interference, based on what Mr. Whitaker has said.

So, the thing -- the world has changed from when Rosenstein was in charge of the investigation. And I think -- I believe that many Republicans will find the same.

TAPPER: So, you have raised concerns about the legality of Whitaker's appointment in a letter that you sent to the White House Friday.

SCHUMER: Yes. TAPPER: But the text of the Federal Vacancies Reform Act says --

quote -- "If an officer of an executive agency resigns, the president may direct an officer or employee of such executive agency to perform the functions and duties of the vacant office temporarily in an acting capacity."

Now, I get that you have objections to Matt Whitaker, but isn't the president within his legal authority to put him in as acting attorney general temporarily?

SCHUMER: Well, the Constitution requires advise and consent for principal officers.

And if the attorney general isn't a principal officer, who is? The Constitution would supersede that legislation. It hasn't been tested. There are a number of senators who are looking at a lawsuit. We will have to see if they have standing. But there are people who do have standing who will pursue this in the courts.

And I believe that will be found that Mr. Whitaker cannot be put in as attorney general because he has not been approved by the Senate.

TAPPER: Well, I believe...

SCHUMER: It's not only the right thing to do. I think it's the constitutional prerogative as well.

TAPPER: There was a test before the Supreme Court in U.S. v. Eaton in 1898. The court rejected the idea that a temporary fill-in for a principal officer needs to be confirmed by the Senate.

SCHUMER: Yes, well, I think, in the case of attorney general, it's different.

And I think that the courts will side with us. If there was ever a principal officer, someone in charge of law enforcement, in charge of rule of law, who has responsibilities far beyond being a partisan, such an extreme partisan, as Whitaker is, this is the instance.

And I think the courts will rise to the occasion.

TAPPER: Democrats are going to have new levers of power in January, when your colleagues take control of the House.

Now, you have been out warning about a possible constitutional crisis, including on the show this morning. From everything you have seen from President Trump so far, should House Democrats file articles of impeachment, or is that premature?

SCHUMER: Look, I think we should pursue the ways that we're going about this now, as I outlined.

[09:15:00]

I think that the ideal situation, which I hope will happen -- I believe our Republican colleagues will join us in making sure it happens -- is to allow the Mueller investigation to go forward, to make public what he recommends, and take it from there.

So that's where I think we should go right now. First step, job one, avoid interference with Mueller. It's paramount to the rule of law and this country not to become a Third World republic.

TAPPER: Let's turn to health care. You brought it up earlier. You say it's an issue that helped the Democrats take the House and keep some of the Senate seats.

And, obviously, it was very important for voters, according to exit polls. A lot of the candidates in 2018 rallied around not just preserving the protection for people with preexisting conditions, but Medicare for all.

And, in fact, last year, a third of your Senate caucus, including Cory Booker, Kirsten Gillibrand, Elizabeth Warren, co-sponsored the bill that President Obama has called a good idea, Medicare for all.

You, however, have not signed on to Medicare for all. Why not?

SCHUMER: My view is, there are many different approaches.

Democrats are united in one thing. We want to provide better health care at less cost for the American people. When the average family sits down at their kitchen table Friday night, they worry more about rising health care costs and the inability to provide health care for a parent, a spouse, a child than anything else.

That's why, even with this good economy, Democrats did so well in the election. And there are lots of different approaches to make that happen. There's Medicare for all. There's buy-in to Medicare or Medicaid. There are many other approaches. Senator Murray has a -- has put forward some.

And we are united in improving health care at lower costs for Americans. And there are lots of different approaches. We will unite on an approach and come forward with that as we move through the legislative process.

TAPPER: Is Medicare for all not politically a wise approach? I mean, your senator who was reelected from Wisconsin, Tammy Baldwin, she embraced it.

SCHUMER: Yes. No, I'm not...

TAPPER: And she won -- she won reelection in a state that Donald Trump won.

SCHUMER: I am not picking one over the other. There are lots of good approaches.

And the most important thing here is to have Democratic unity. We had unity on health care back in 2017, and we were able to preserve the health care of 30 million people, when we defeated the attempt to repeal the ACA. We will come together. We have a great caucus in the Senate, and I

hope it will be duplicated -- I believe it will -- in the House, where people from Elizabeth Warren to Joe Manchin come together, and we discuss how we can be united in a strong position.

And it's worked. I think it'll work again with health care.

TAPPER: Well, speaking of your caucus, you watched what happened in the fight for the Republican presidential nomination in 2016, when more than a dozen candidates ran against each other and beat each other up pretty -- pretty good.

It looks like your party, the Democratic Party may face a similarly crowded field in 2020, if not even more so. Are there any lessons learned that you will take into this presidential cycle that you will caution Gillibrand, Booker, Warren, Sanders, et cetera, when it comes to Democratic presidential primaries?

SCHUMER: Look, I think we have lots of strong candidates across the political spectrum.

My basic philosophy right now is, let 1,000 flowers bloom. Let's get a lot of people out there. The political process, it's a little like sports. It's almost mystical. You never know who's going to emerge on top.

And so having candidates out there of various views, all united in the need to change the course of how the presidency is conducted and of how we help the middle class, people aspiring to be in the middle class in a much better way than the Republicans have, I think Democrats at the end of the day will be united, will be united on a candidate who can best defeat Trump.

And, at the moment, there are many different approaches. Let's see which one proves to be the strongest.

TAPPER: Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer of New York, thank you so much for your time, sir. We appreciate it.

SCHUMER: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: The president is...

SCHUMER: Good to be here.

TAPPER: Good to have you.

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