MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Chris Coons

Interview

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MATTHEWS: Well, that`s Adel Al-Jubeir, who used to be the ambassador over  here.
That`s not true, by the way, what he just said.

The aide, who has been fired, once tweeted that he was a faithful executor  of the orders of the king and the crown prince. In other words, he took  orders.

In a brand-new interview with "USA Today," however, President Trump called  the death of Khashoggi a plot gone awry. He said he opposes any efforts to  cease arms sales to the country as punishment.

Well, up to now, the crown prince and other Saudi officials had said that  Khashoggi left the consulate freely, alive. And, on Sunday, the president  of Turkey said he would reveal the naked truth of what happened to  Khashoggi in the consulate. He`s going to do that apparently at 4:00  tomorrow morning.

For more, I`m joined by Senator Chris Coons, Democrat from Delaware.

Senator, where are you on this? And is there any connection between what  Trump is saying and the truth?

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D), DELAWARE: Well, Chris, here`s one of the hardest  things about this, is the big gap between what our president is saying and  what`s true.

First, he`s claiming that there`s something like $110 billion in arms sales  at risk here. There isn`t. That`s just not true. After President Trump  visited Saudi Arabia, there`s been maybe $4 billion in arm sales that have  been projected.

Second, we`re a country of values, not just a country of interests. And it  is astonishing to me that President Trump, even after the two years we have  gone through, it is still surprising to me that, with a straight face, he  can say that we shouldn`t put at risk arm sales because that`s not an  America`s best interests.

Chris, what`s in America`s best interests is to be a country that stands  for something, that stands for free speech, the protection of journalists,  the advancement of human rights. That`s got to be at the head of the line  of our interests around the world, is protecting the values that define us  as America.

Our president is instead turning that on its head and saying that we`re --  what we`re most interested in is selling weapons to anybody who will pay us  for them. That`s not why we sell weapons to other countries. We sell  weapons to those countries that are allies, that share our interests and  share our values.

Increasingly, it`s clear that Saudi Arabia doesn`t share our values. And  while I recognize they are a vital ally of ours in the Middle East in the  project of pushing back on Iranian aggression, I don`t think we should do  that at any cost. And the cost here is one that goes right to the very  core of who we are as a country.

MATTHEWS: Right.

COONS: I was struck that Treasury Secretary Mnuchin appeared in the Middle  East and went to meet with the Saudi crown prince, MBS…

MATTHEWS: Today.

COONS: … and took a grinning photo today.

This does not suggest that the Trump administration is taking this issue  seriously.

MATTHEWS: Do you think the president wants this to fade, he wants this  issue to just fade without any action appropriate to a murder, to a  premeditated murder?

COONS: Yes.

You don`t wait for the further developments in an investigation that`s  being run by a murder suspect if you`re serious about getting to the bottom  of it.

Any of our last four presidents would have been calling for an  international investigation, would have been calling for either the FBI,  our own intelligence community, or our partners throughout the world to be  conducting a thorough investigation with the Turks to get to the bottom of  this, not asking the Saudis to take more time, if they`d like to, to come  up with another explanation that is clearly not true.

For the first two weeks, the Saudis told the world that Khashoggi walked  out alive of their own consulate in Istanbul. Clearly not true. Now they  have made up another story. Clearly not true, as I suspect we will hear  tomorrow from Erdogan, president of Turkey.

They have got detailed information about this that may make this even more  difficult for the Saudis to maintain with a straight face.

MATTHEWS: Well, during an interview with CNN, Jared Kushner, the  president`s son-in-law, the crown prince, if you will, declined to say  whether or not he bought the most recent excuse provided by the Saudis.
Let`s listen to Jared.

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MATTHEWS: You know, the ways you`re raising the question of values vs.  interests, there`s a guy who seems to be a business type, whatever you  think of him.

He doesn`t think -- I don`t think Jared Kushner is the guy you bring in for  a values discussion. He`s out to make some money. He`s out to cut a deal.

I think he`s a ridiculous person, by the way.

And I will just say this. Why the hell he`s going to put together a Middle  East deal, based on the Saudis underwriting some crazy deal with -- with  the Israelis, I don`t know what they`re thinking about. I think they`re  crazy, just in terms of putting all their money on…

COONS: Well, Chris -- Chris, there was…

MATTHEWS: … putting all their money on Jared and the Saudis to  underwrite a reasonable Middle East deal.
Your thoughts?

COONS: Well, Chris, there was another important speech this week that was given that I think President Trump and Jared are trying to distract us from that was about values and money.

Mitch McConnell said his biggest disappointment in this Congress was their  failure to repeal the Affordable Care Act, and that he thinks the biggest  thing affecting our deficits is the entitlement programs, Social Security,  Medicare and Medicaid.

MATTHEWS: OK.

COONS: I think everybody ought to focusing on the fact that the  Republicans wants to repeal the protections for preexisting conditions, and  want to find a way to cut entitlement programs, and are frankly focusing us  on this Middle Eastern, allegedly -- caravan of folks that includes,  allegedly, gangsters and Middle Easterners, rather than focusing on our  core values of protecting human rights around the world and advancing the  health care interests of average Americans.

Chris, I think this is just a matter of a shell game, where they`re trying  to distract us from what really matters to the average American.

MATTHEWS: I think you should tell -- as I said in the first part of the  show, you should remind every voter that Mitch McConnell is coming after  your Social Security, your Medicare, and your Medicaid.

And it`s for real. It`s all on tape.

COONS: Absolutely.

MATTHEWS: And he means it. Unlike Trump, he is a real ideologue, and he`s  after it. And he`s the leader of the Republican Senate.

Thank you so much, Chris Coons of Delaware.

COONS: Thank you, Chris.

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