CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview With Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders

Interview

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TAPPER: Joining me now is independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, who caucuses with the Democrats.

Senator, you just heard those comments from Holder, Clinton and Michelle Obama.

What do you think? Do you think Democrats have been too weak responding to Republicans in the past? Or do you subscribe to Michelle Obama's mantra, when they go low, we go high?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: You know, Jake, I don't think it's a question of going high or going low. I think it's a question of telling the truth.

And the truth is that you have a president who lies all of the time, a pathological liar. I don't think that's what the American people want. You have a Republican leadership in the House and the Senate that tried, came within one vote of throwing 32 million people off of the health insurance they currently have.

You have leadership there in the House and the Senate that wants to do away with the preexisting protections that people have in this country, so they can get health insurance when you have cancer or heart disease.

You have leadership in the House and Senate, led by the president, that provided massive tax breaks for the wealthiest people in this country. Over a 10-year period, 83 percent of the benefits go to the top 1 percent.

You have a president and Republican leadership who supported a budget, supported a budget which would have cut Medicaid by a trillion dollars, devastating for the elderly people, Medicare by $500 billion, Social Security trust -- disability trust fund by $72 billion.

You have an administration that doesn't even recognize the reality of climate change.

So, I think what we have to do is be aggressive in telling the truth that you have a Republican leadership that's working overtime to benefit the wealthy and the powerful, while ignoring the needs of working families.

TAPPER: But I guess the debate is -- I don't think there's any Democrat, Democratic official who would disagree with what you just said.

The debate is, how aggressive? Should -- should people who are Republican officials be disrupted when they're eating a meal at a restaurant? Is it appropriate for protesters to be banging on the doors of the Supreme Court? That's really what the debate is about.

SANDERS: Well, I'm -- I am very strongly in favor of mobilizing the American people to stand up and fight for economic justice and social justice and racial and environmental justice.

And I think we have to mobilize people. I am not a great fan of being rude or disrupting activities.

But this is what I will say. This entire 2000 -- election campaign is going to come down to two words, and that is voter turnout. And if you are out there, and you're sick and tired of what's gone on, of the very rich getting richer, while the middle class continues to struggle, then you're going to have to not only get out and vote, but you're going to have to get your friends and your families to vote.

Four years ago, when the Republicans did really, really well, we had the lowest voter turnout since World War II. And that's got to change.

So, my hope is that people stand up, fight back and get involved in this campaign. [09:20:04]

TAPPER: One of the big issues that you and many Democrats are talking about on the campaign trail has to do with Medicare for all.

President Trump is trying to rally supporters by criticizing that plan in the opinion pages of "USA Today." The piece is suffused with lies and factual errors. We have fact-checked some of them.

But let me ask you a question about the president's central argument, which is -- which is one that you even hear from some progressives, that Medicare for all could lead to worse coverage for many Americans who are happy with the health care coverage that they have right now with the private insurance plan.

How do you respond to that issue, without getting in -- we don't have -- we -- it's only an hour-long show. We can't get into every lie President Trump told in that op-ed. But if you could just talk about, why should somebody who's happy with their health insurance want Medicare for all?

SANDERS: I will tell you why.

Because right now, as a nation, as a nation, we are spending twice as much per capita on health care as do the people of any other country, over $10,000 a year, a family of four, $28,000 a year.

That is unsustainable. And yet we end up having, Jake, 30 million people uninsured and even more who are underinsured. You're talking about people being happy. These are people who are paying the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs. These are people with deductibles that are so high that, in many cases, they can't walk in to the doctor's office.

These are people who, if they lose their job today, are not going to have any health coverage at all.

Look, here is the bottom line. As a nation, do we do what every other major country on Earth does? And that is to understand that health care is a right, not a privilege? Do we spend our money to provide health care for every man, woman or child, or to make the drug companies and the insurance companies phenomenally rich, while our health care outcomes are worse in many cases than many other countries?

So, in my view -- and the last poll that I saw on this, Jake, suggests that 70 percent of the American people understand that Medicare is a good program, and it should be expanded to all people.

Just one more point here. When Trump lied -- he lied about 19 different times in his op-ed attacking me. He said that we are going to weaken Medicare coverage for the elderly.

That is an outrageous lie. We expand coverage to include dental care, vision care...

TAPPER: And hearing aids.

SANDERS: ... and hearing aids.

TAPPER: Yes.

SANDERS: Right.

And this is really important to seniors.

TAPPER: OK.

I want to move on to Saudi Arabia. You made -- you made a major foreign policy speech this week mentioning reports that journalist Jamal Khashoggi was killed in the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul.

Former CIA Director John Brennan wrote in "The Washington Post" that sanctions should be imposed on all Saudis involved, that the U.S. should freeze military sales and intelligence cooperation, and there should be a U.N. resolution condemning it.

How do you think President Trump should respond if it's proven that the Saudis were behind his disappearance, if not murder?

SANDERS: Well, I think the most important thing -- I think that they're -- it's clear we cannot have an ally who murders in cold blood, in their own consulate, a critic, a dissident. That is unacceptable.

As you may know, a number of months ago, along with the -- a conservative Republican, Mike Lee of Utah, I introduced a resolution, which got 44 votes, which said that the time is now for the United States to get out of the Saudi-led war in Yemen, which is causing a horrible humanitarian disaster there.

So I think one of the strong things that we could do is not only stop military sales, not only put sanctions on Saudi Arabia, but, most importantly, get out of this terrible, terrible war in Yemen, led by the Saudis.

TAPPER: Senator, I know you bristle when asked questions about polls or anything that you perceive to be about a horse race question, but people are wondering if you're going to run for president.

And there is a new CNN poll just released showing that former Vice President Joe Biden is far and away the leader for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2020 among Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents. He's at 33 percent. You're in second place among Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents at 13 percent, followed by Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren.

What do you say to Democrats who say Joe Biden is the best chance to win back the White House because of his appeal to working-class voters?

SANDERS: Well, I say that we have three weeks to go in the most important midterm election in the history of this country. And I think that that is what we focus on right now.

We have a presidential election coming in 2020. We will see what happens. But I think it is very wrong to deflect attention from the need to end one-party rule in Washington right now.

TAPPER: When are you going to make up your mind about running in 2020?

SANDERS: Well, you will be one of the first to know, Jake. How is that?

TAPPER: How about the first? How about -- the first would be -- that's what we would prefer on this show.

SANDERS: All right.

TAPPER: All right.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: Senator Bernie Sanders, independent of Vermont, always good to see you, sir. Thank you so much for your time.

[09:25:05]

SANDERS: Thank you.

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