NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Chris Coons
Interview
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CHUCK TODD:
Good to see you. Joining me now, from Wilmington, for a perspective from the other side, is Democratic Senator Chris Coons of Delaware. Senator Coons, welcome back to Meet the Press, sir.
SEN. CHRIS COONS:
Thank you, Chuck. Good to be on with you again.
CHUCK TODD:
This morning, Brett Kavanaugh is associate justice of the Supreme Court. Democrats made a lot of arguments against him to try to stop him. It was an election year. The committee process was flawed. His record was outside the mainstream. He lied under oath, credible allegations of sexual misconduct. Why did Democrats lose all of those arguments?
SEN. CHRIS COONS:
Well, frankly, I felt like this process was unfair from the very outset, The way that we were prevented from seeing, literally, millions of pages of Judge Kavanaugh's record from his service in the Bush Administration, to the way that the process went forward in the confirmation hearing, to some of how the last week unfolded. And frankly, the challenge I'm focused on, Chuck, is looking forward at how it is we can heal the Senate after this bitter and divisive and very partisan week and how we work to restore or strengthen some of the legitimacy of the Supreme Court now that we have a seated justice who was confirmed by just 50 votes, without allegations against him having really been cleared.
CHUCK TODD:
Were you -- it seems as if you were almost working as a go-between to the undecided members, particularly, obviously, with Jeff Flake. Were you trying to convince him to vote no?
SEN. CHRIS COONS:
Look, going into this, I knew that Jeff is a conservative. He wants a conservative Supreme Court. And I knew that would likely be the outcome. But I think there are good reasons to have doubts about now-Justice Kavanaugh's candor to the committee and fitness to serve, given his very partisan screed in that last hearing in front of the Judiciary Committee last Friday. So I wasn't trying to persuade Senator Flake or others not to vote their conscience, not to reflect their states and their values, in advancing a conservative judge. I was trying to help them focus on what legitimate questions there were about this particular conservative judge.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me get your response to something Senator Collins said in her floor speech, announcing her yes vote. Here it is.
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CHUCK TODD:
Do you agree with her? Or do you think a different message was sent?
SEN. CHRIS COONS:
Look, I respect Senator Collins. She's a great colleague. We see this a little differently. I think the F.B.I. investigation that Senator Flake and I worked hard together to make sure happened this past week did not go far enough, in only interviewing, according to press reports, ten witnesses who came forward and not interviewing dozens of corroborating witnesses who tried to get in touch with the F.B.I., who Dr. Ford offered to the F.B.I. I don't think this investigation went far enough. And I don't think that the members of the committee and the Senate, who had to make a final decision yesterday, had all the facts in front of them. In that regard, I don't think we did enough. But Chuck, I do think one of the big things that came out of his hearing was that thousands of survivors of assault, who had kept to themselves for years or decades very painful experiences, did come forward. And there are things we can and should do, on a bipartisan basis, to respect and hear and act on the oceans of pain that exist in our country from long-buried, tragic experiences of assault, to try and change our culture and try and change our country.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you believe that the initial presumption, in a situation like this, is to believe the victim at all times?
SEN. CHRIS COONS:
I think it's important that we change our country's culture to one where we believe victims of sexual assault who come forward. That wasn't the case for most of my life. Most victims of sexual assault didn't come forward, because they thought they would be shamed or ridiculed and, ultimately, disbelieved. I think one of the biggest tragedies of this past week was to watch the president of the United States publicly mocking and ridiculing Dr. Ford. His initial response, which was to say that her testimony was credible and compelling, was where he should have stopped. But to instead turn it into a campaign rally event, where he was mocking her, I think, really brought this entire conversation down and really was a low mark in his presidency.
CHUCK TODD:
But you went a little bit further than what others had said. You know, many backing, now Justice Kavanaugh said, he ought to be treated as if he's innocent until proven guilty and you disagreed. You said no, the burden is on him to disprove these allegations against him. There are a lot of people that hear that going woah, wait a minute, so I'm guilty until proven innocent?
SEN. CHRIS COONS:
Let me speak to that --
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
SEN. CHRIS COONS:
Let me speak to that. Let me speak to that Chuck, if I can. This is a confirmation hearing. No one is entitled to a seat on the Supreme Court. It's not a criminal trial, it's more like a job hearing. It's more like a job interview. The president has a whole series of credentialed and qualified, conservative judges from among whom he could choose to put someone forward to the Senate of the United States for confirmation. So if there are credible allegations against this particular nominee, and if this particular nominee in his confirmation process conducts himself in ways that there are real questions about candor, partisanship, fitness, then I think it's appropriate for the committee, or the Senate, to say perhaps a different nominee is the right one. If you're considering someone to be, say president of a university, CEO of a company, the host of a Sunday show, and there are credible allegations against them, it would make sense to step back and try and investigate them to see if you can resolve them. That's why I was thankful that my friend, Senator Flake, took a tough step last Friday and asked for a FBI investigation.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me get you to respond to something Senator Kennedy said to me earlier this week about when he believed things changed in this whole Kavanaugh debate. Take a listen.
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CHUCK TODD:
He was referring to lawyer, Michael Avenatti, who is thinking about running for president, who ended up representing somebody whose allegations have not been seen as credible as the other two allegations. Do you agree with his political assessment there, that the -- Avenatti's entrance into this sideshow sort of diluted everything?
SEN. CHRIS COONS:
Well, I certainly like Senator Kennedy's turns of phrase. "The foothills of the preposterous" is going to end up being a memorable phrase. I do think that he's correct, that there was a widespread response, certainly on the Republican side, that these were not credible allegations.
I tried to focus my questioning of Judge Kavanaugh on issues that were directly related, first, to his judicial philosophy, his extreme views on presidential power and individual liberty, and ways in which I'm convinced he'll overturn Justice Kennedy's most-important recent decision, and then to focus on issues of fitness and candor. So I do think what was important about the last few weeks was trying to find a bipartisan focus on facts. And the larger question, Chuck, here is, how do we move forward? How do we heal the divisions in the Senate?
CHUCK TODD:
So I take it, if you're talking that way -- the House Democrats that are talking about reinvestigating Kavanaugh, if they get control of the House, possibly looking at impeachment, what do you make of those pledges coming from some House Democrats?
SEN. CHRIS COONS:
I think that's premature. I think, you know, frankly, we are just less than a month away from an election. Folks who feel very strongly one way or the other about the issues in front of us should get out and vote and participate. There's only ever been one justice that's been impeached and I think talking about it at this point isn't necessarily healing us and moving us forward. Chuck, the Senate's role in our politics is not to just reflect the country, but to help heal and lead the country. And that's the course we should be on.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Senator Coons, Democrat from Delaware, thanks for coming out and sharing your views, as well.
SEN. CHRIS COONS:
Thank you, Chuck.
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