MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Mazie Hirono

Interview

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MADDOW: "The Wall Street Journal" reports today that when Senator Dianne  Feinstein received a letter from a California constituent expressing a  desire to stay anonymous, but also conveying an allegation of a serious  attempted rape, an allegation that Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh  had attempted to rape this woman when he was a 17-year-old in high school.  Dianne Feinstein tried to figure out how she could have those allegations  looked into, how she could have them investigated while still protecting  this woman`s desire to keep her name confidential.

According to "The Wall Street Journal," quote, once they received the  letter containing the allegation against Kavanaugh, Senator Feinstein  staffers approached the Senate Ethics Committee to inquiry about whether  the Judiciary Committee could hire an independent, outside counsel to  evaluate the allegations. They were told the rules committee would have to  approve such a request and, quote, the Republican chairman of the rules  committee and the Republican chairman of the judiciary committee would both  have to sign off on the request. That was an action Senator Feinstein  staffers determined would have violated Dr. Ford`s desire to remain  anonymous.

So, that`s why Senator Feinstein didn`t go that route, because she couldn`t  have pursued that while preserving her constituent`s desire for anonymity.  Well, now, her constituent is no longer anonymous. White House and  Republicans in the Senate have been adamant for reasons that are not clear,  that they will not allow the FBI to investigate this allegation as part of  Brett Kavanaugh`s background check as a nominee, even though that would be  standard procedure in a case like this.

But if they won`t let the FBI look into this, for whatever reason -- may  they just hate the FBI now so they don`t want the FBI doing anything. If  they won`t let the FBI do it, well, how about anybody else? How about this  other path? What about having an independent, outside counsel look into it  instead, if the Republicans and the White House are so scared of the  prospect of the FBI doing it?

Joining us now is Senator Maize Hirono of Hawaii. She is a member of the  Senate Judiciary Committee. She has supported the idea that the FBI should  investigate this matter.

Senator Hirono, I really appreciate your time tonight. Thank you for being  here.

SEN. MAIZE HIRONO (D), HAWAII: Certainly. Good evening.

MADDOW: Can you give us your sense of state of play right now where  negotiations stand, how you understand your committee is going to proceed?

HIRONO: There are no negotiations. As Chuck Grassley and the committee  basically going forward and what I can consider a seat of the pants kind of  approach. So you laid out really clearly, Rachel, why the FBI  investigation should occur.

And the reason they don`t want this to occur or anything like this to  happen is anything that gets in the way of fast-tracking Judge Kavanaugh`s  assent to the Supreme Court is not where the Republicans are. They need to  get him on the court.

It`s lickety-split really before the October term begins. There`s some  pretty cases coming before the Supreme Court. They need Judge Kavanaugh`s fifth vote. They don`t want any 4-4 ties anymore. That is the impetus.

MADDOW: When -- in the precedent that we all see here, which was in 1991  with new allegations raised during the confirmation process about Judge  Clarence Thomas, the FBI was directed by the White House that they should  look into that as part of their background check. The criticism of that  FBI investigation at the time, if anything, was that it was too cursory, it  was too quick. It took them all of 2 ½ days to complete their assessment  there.

Given that precedent, given how quickly the FBI looked into it and came up  with their report on that matter back then, is there an expectation that  the FBI would take a substantial amount of time here, the kind of delay  that you`re talking about here? Do we have any sense about what the extent  of their investigation would be if they looked into it?

HIRONO: I want their investigation to be thorough. There are many more  eyes looking what the FBI is doing. The kind of cursory investigation they  did regarding Anita Hill`s investigations would not be deemed acceptable.

And, of course, Democrats would say, what is this, some kind of whitewash?  If you`re going to do an investigation, do your jobs.

So there is an expectation that they will do their jobs in the appropriate  way. But yet again, this is not something that the Republicans want to  contemplate at all. They are in a rush to get this man on the court. Why?  Because for one thing, the president is an unindicted co-conspirator and he  would like somebody on the court who he thinks will protect him from  criminal and civil proceedings while he is there, sitting as president.  That`s a major incentive, I`d say.

MADDOW: Senator, "The Wall Street Journal" has reported that one of the  things that Senator Feinstein looked into when she first got this letter  from Dr. Blasey Ford was the prospect of calling in some sort of outside  investigative counsel to look at the allegation, to see how serious the  allegation is, to see if there`s corroboration for it, and to see as a  factual matter, senators might look into assessing the credibility of this  allegation and the denial from Judge Kavanaugh.

Senator Feinstein elected not to go that route, not to pursue that. But I  wonder, given how things are going, if you and other Democrats on the  committee now are thinking about potentially trying to engage some sort of  independent investigator to look into this matter.

HIRONO: Well, that is still going to require the consent of the rules  committee, Republican chair and Chuck Grassley. So, that`s a nonstarter.  The FBI is supposed to be doing this investigation and for Chuck Grassley  to say there`s nothing that the FBI can do that will have any relevance to  Dr. Ford`s testimony is -- defies all logic, in my view.

By the way, we all know that she is being threatened. You know, isn`t that  witness tampering? Isn`t that a crime? Why does the FBI have to wait  around for the president to say go do your jobs? Why don`t they do their  jobs?

I think there`s a crime that`s occurring right now. She`s afraid to come  to testify, not to mention she is not getting a fair deal. The entire --  the force and power of the presidency and the administration and all their  supporters in the Senate are for Kavanaugh. What does she have?

I think when she said that she wanted to testify, she will participate, I  think she expected a modicum of fairness, that`s not what she`s getting.  Why the heck does she participate in a -- basically a situation that is so  disadvantageous to her and that revictimizes her? This is exactly what  happened to Anita Hill.

MADDOW: Senator, just to underscore what you said there, you`re suggesting  that the efforts that have been made to threaten Dr. Blasey Ford since she  came out -- her lawyers have said she`s had to leave her home, there have  been death threats and she`s been impersonated online, we have seen that  she`s been doxed essentially, that her personal information has been posted  online. You`re saying that should be investigated federally as a law  information matter as witness tampering?

HIRONO: That sounds like witness tampering to me. So, why doesn`t the FBI  go in and investigate that? They do not need to have the president tell  them to do it.

So, there are so many reasons that this unseemly rush to get Judge  Kavanaugh on the court is just -- it is explainable but it`s not  acceptable.

MADDOW: Senator Maize Hirono --

HIRONO: It`s not what we should be doing.

MADDOW: Senator Maize Hirono of Hawaii, excuse me there, ma`am, member of  the Senate Judiciary Committee -- I really appreciate your time tonight.  Thank you. Keep us apprised.

HIRONO: Thank you. Aloha.

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