MSNBC "The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Adam Schiff

Interview

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O`DONNELL: We will have more on the Kavanaugh nomination in a moment. But  first, tonight President Trump is ordering the release of documents in the  Russia investigation while the Russia investigation is still going on.

Congressman Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the House intelligence  committee, who will join us in a moment, released a statement saying,  "President Trump in a clear abuse of power has decided to intervene in a  pending law enforcement investigation by ordering the selective release of  materials he believes are helpful to his defense team and thinks will  advance a false narrative. With respect to some of these materials, I have  been previously informed by the FBI and Justice Department that they would  consider their release a red line that must not be crossed as they may  compromise sources and methods. This is evidently of no consequence to a  president who cares about nothing, about the country and everything about  his narrow self-interest."

President Trump has ordered the release of all text messages about the  Russia investigation from James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Peter Struck, Lisa  Page, and Bruce Ohr. He is also ordering the release of 21 additional  pages of the secret FISA warrant application to monitor Trump`s former  campaign adviser Carter Page.

And joining us now is Congressman Adam Schiff. Congressman, I don`t even  know how to form a question almost about this because it`s so unprecedented  and it`s so strange that in the middle of an investigation, the FBI is  ordered to make public its own information inside an investigation. Is  this the president trying to help all of the potential witnesses in the  investigation and give them ways of getting through any possible interviews  with Robert Mueller?

ADAM SCHIFF, (D) RANKING MEMBER INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Well, I think it`s  first and foremost a way of Donald Trump helping his own defense, providing  these materials to his own legal defense team. He`s no doubt conferred  with his lawyers what information from the investigation would be useful to  you. He`s conferred with his TV lawyer Rudy Giuliani what would be useful  to you to be able to talk about on TV. And he`s conferred with his allies  in Congress.

This takes place, say in this context, Lawrence, yesterday quite  unexpectedly, totally out of the blue, the chairman of the intel committee  Devin Nunes announces that he is going to release the transcripts of the  witnesses we have interviewed. Now, we have been urging that that be done  for months and they have refused. We have pressed them and they have  refused despite earlier promising to do that.
Why the sudden about-face to be immediately followed by the White House  ordering its own release? This is coordinated between the president and  his allies, and the precedent and the policy and the norm that we`ve had  since Watergate that a president does not interfere in specific cases of  justice, let alone in one in which the president himself may be implicated  is shattered. And in the process, important sources and important  precedent of protecting those sources may be violated by this president who  cares little about the national security.

O`DONNELL: Well, this is a president who violated source protections when  he was inviting the Russian ambassador and foreign minister into the oval office in his first month in office. This is a consistent pattern with 
him. But what more can you tell us about what the FBI and Justice Department told you previously about why none of this should be released?

SCHIFF: Well, a few things. With respect to some of the materials that  the president has tonight ordered to be declassified, that the FBI and  Department of Justice consider this to be Gang of Eight material. Meaning  not only material that shouldn`t be shared publically but material that  shouldn`t even be shared outside of the top officials in Congress, the  chair and ranking members of the intelligence committees, as well as the  speakers and leaders of both House and Senate.

So it`s among in their view material that must be closely held. And beyond  that, they have said that release of it, some of it would be a red line,  that they would not be willing to cross under any circumstance. So they  ought to live up to that. They ought to fearlessly defend their sources.  Otherwise, it will not only compromise them but other people will be  unwilling to cooperate with our intelligence agencies because they will  feel they won`t be protected.

So the FBI, and this will be difficult for the FBI director and the head of  national intelligence Dan Coats. Both Christopher Wray and Dan Coats are  going to have to stand up to this president and say no. They`re not going  to release material that they have committed to keep confidential to  protect people. And it`s going to be difficult because the president`s  allies in Congress are going to be threatening them with impeachment like  they did with Rod Rosenstein. But you have to say no to this president  because otherwise, he will continue to ask for more and more and more. And  the precedent and the danger it will set will be enormously destructive.

O`DONNELL: But Congressman, does the president have the legal authority to  order this release? And if he does, wouldn`t he then just fire anyone who  refused?

SCHIFF: He has the power to order things declassified, yes. He has the  power to ignore the admonitions of his own intelligence agencies. He has  the power to declassify information which would jeopardize U.S. interests.  And the response to that would be I`m not going to carry out this order, I  will resign if you force me to do this.

Now, I would imagine the Department of Justice and the FBI will try to find  some compromise where they propose redactions which, of course, will just  lead to another round of complaining by the president and his allies. So  where this leads us, I don`t know. Maybe this is merely a distraction from  the Kavanaugh problems. But, of course, the people around the world whose  identities are, you know, whether they live or die, they look at this  president and they wonder whether they should continue to cooperate with  the United States.

O`DONNELL: And Congressman, I know you don`t have a vote on the Senate on  Supreme Court confirmation, but I want to get your reaction to what we`ve  learned about Brett Kavanaugh and what we have now learned about the  accuser, Professor Ford, after she went public yesterday in "The Washington  Post"?

SCHIFF: Well, these are enormously disturbing allegations and I feel for  the woman who has been forced into the spotlight through this and I can only imagine what testifying is going to be like. I don`t think it`s 
efficient merely to hear her testimony or the judge`s denials. I think the Senate responsibly needs to look into these allegations.We`re talking about a lifetime appointment to a court which will have a  decisive impact for decades. And we need to make sure that people are of  upright moral character that we put on that court. So this needs to be  thoroughly vetted and those Senators darn well better be respectful of this  witness who did not choose to put herself out this way. So you know,  frankly, before all this, I would have voted against him for a whole  variety of reasons, including his views on whether president is above the  law but this needs to be thoroughly vetted by the Senate.

O`DONNELL: And as a former federal prosecutor yourself and an experienced  congressional investigator, would you if you remember the Senate judiciary  committee demand the testimony of the other people who were at that party,  the other boy who the accuser says was in the room for example at the time?

SCHIFF: I would. There are witnesses who will either corroborate or not  corroborate what the witnesses are saying. It`s hard to really even make  the claim that you`re looking into this in a serious way if you`re going to  leave it at he said and she said. So, yes, bring the other witnesses under  oath and hear what they have to say. Put them under the penalty of perjury  and require them to tell the truth.

As our president has demonstrated time and time again, he`s more than  willing to make false statements publicly. He thinks that`s perfectly  fine. He himself has distinguished between lying to the public and lying  to Bob Mueller, which obviously terrifies him into refusing to speak to the  special counsel. But let`s have these other witnesses come and be placed  under oath and hear what they have to say.

O`DONNELL: Congressman Adam Schiff, thank you very much for joining us. I  appreciate it.

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