MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Pramila Jayapal

Interview

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MATTHEWS: You believe it is 2018?

For more I`m joined by Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, a Democrat from  Washington State. Also Robert Costa, national political reporter for the  "Washington Post." Heidi Pryzbyla, national political correspondent for  NBC News. And Mike Murphy, a Republican strategist of some renown. Thank  you.

Congresswoman, I just heard Orrin Hatch. I thought it was 1991, and we are  doing Anita Hill here. This woman, whoever she is, is mixed up.  Primafacia (ph), he is saying don`t trust the woman. I`m sorry. I know he  is about to retire. He maybe should have left a while ago. What do you  make of the presumption this woman is mixed up, we don`t know who she is,  if she has a name, and believing Kavanaugh.

REP. JAMILA JAYAPAL (D), WASHINGTON: These people are living in the dark  ages. I think Brett Kavanaugh and some of these Republicans who are  defending him have three things going against them, Chris. The first one  is her credibility. The second one is his credibility. And the third one  is the Me Too movement.

Her credibility, I mean, this is not a woman who was looking to come  forward. It`s clear she`s been struggling with this. This is not a new  issue, from the notes from her therapist going back to 2012. She has been  struggling as women who have been sexually assaulted often do. And this  has been very difficult. It`s clear to me from the accounts that she came  forward out of some sense of duty to the country. Initially hoping to be  anonymous, and then realizing she had to stand up for herself.

But given what she is experiencing, you see why people don`t want to come  forward. His credibility. He has at best misled the Judiciary Committee  on a number of issues, at worst, purr perjured himself. But the reality is  --.
MATTHEWS: Give me an example because I`m not sure that -- when has  perjured himself?

JAYAPAL: Well, I said at best misled. And at worst, perjured.

MATTHEWS: When has he misled?

JAYAPAL: I`ll give you one specific example around the judge`s  nominations. When he said back in I think it was 2006 when he was  testifying before the Judiciary Committee, that he had had no contact and  no involvement with the nominations of a number of judges including judge  Pryor. He was questioned later by Leahy, again, about this. He said, no.  The emails that were finally released just a few days before this all  started and this hearing showed very clearly that, in fact, he had had  contact with that nomination and with a number of other nominations.

What`s being called Memo-gate is another example. And so whether or not  you think he misled or perjured, the reality is he hasn`t been completely  truthful. And the fact that Mark Judge does not want to come forward and  testify, she didn`t have to put somebody else in the room at the time of  this event. In fact, it would have been better for her in some instances  to say it was just me and Brett Kavanaugh, but that`s not what she did.  She said there was another person in the room. That person does not want  to testify, and if you look at his writings and his books --

MATTHEWS: Right.

JAYAPAL: -- in some ways, he is actually making her case for her that this  was a drunken stumble through the teenage years, and he doesn`t, you know,  he`s gone back and forth saying I don`t remember it, it didn`t happen. So  I don`t think judge Kavanaugh has a lot going for him with the credibility.

And remember, Chris, only 38 percent to 40 percent depending what polls you  look at of Americans actually think that judge Kavanaugh should be  confirmed. And finally, the third point, we are in the midst of the Me Too  movement. And as you said, you would not know it by listening to some of  those comments from Republican senators.

But the reality is, this country has seen over and over again that women  have been assaulted, that men deny those assaults until they can`t.  Seventy-two percent of Americans believe that sexual assault in this  country is real and a serious problem. So I think that this is a big  problem for the Republicans. And I think that, you know, women across the  country are watching this very closely.

To have these senators and President Trump come out and essentially deem  her guilty before she`s even, you know, had a chance to have a fair  investigation when we are talking about the highest court of the land. I  think that`s going to be unacceptable to Republican and democratic women  across this country. And I think Republicans better be very, very careful  and think about what century they`re living in.

MATTHEWS: Thank you. Well said. Thank you.

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