MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Chris Coons

Interview

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MADDOW: That`s today on the floor of the Senate.

Joining us now is Democratic Senator Chris Coons of Delaware. He`s a  member of the Judiciary Committee in the Senate.

Senator Coons, I know this is an incredibly intense and busy time. Thanks  for being here.

COONS: Thank you, Rachel. Great to be on.

MADDOW: As we head into this overnight and tomorrow morning with this  first vote schedule at 10:30 a.m. Eastern, what are you expecting?

COONS: Well, I don`t know what to expect tomorrow. I think that the  cloture vote hangs by a few undecided votes. There are I think at this  point one Democrat and three Republicans who haven`t publicly declared  their intentions for tomorrow. And since the Senate is divided so closely,  51-49, it may be a close outcome.

But frankly, what I`m also hoping comes out of this week, out of this pause  for an FBI investigation is what I was speaking about on the floor earlier  today, which is the message to the thousands of survivors of sexual assault  who have come forward to my office, to many other offices, to tip lines  across the country or to speak to family or friends for the first time,  that we will enter a new phase in our country in terms of our willingness  to hear and to respond to allegations.

I know there has been a lot of fighting this week about whether the process  was fair to Judge Kavanaugh, whether the investigation was serious and  thorough, and whether Dr. Ford and Debbie Ramirez had their allegations  thoroughly enough investigated, and I look forward to getting into that.

But as larger point, I just wanted to say up front, Rachel that I`ve been  stunned by how many people, people I`ve known for decades or just years or  who I`ve just met have shared with me really powerful stories of their own  experience, not seeking something, just wanting to be heard and wanting to  be valued and wanting to share these private personal painful burdens  they`ve carried for so long.

MADDOW: Do you feel like the Senate did right, particularly by Dr. Ford,  but also by Deborah Ramirez and other people who came forward, specifically  with stories to tell they said about Brett Kavanaugh?

Obviously, there has been a lot of controversy today over what has been  described as the results of this FBI expanded background investigation, a  lot of public reporting that indicates that people who those women in  particular said should be followed up with by the FBI who could offer  corroborating information, the FBI didn`t want to hear it, was not open to  hearing from those corroborating witnesses. We then had a lot of  Republican senators say confidently well, there was no corroborating  information in the FBI report.

COONS: Well, first, let`s look at where we were a week ago. We were  barreling ahead with a likely confirmation vote for Judge Kavanaugh without  my friend Senator Jeff Flake stepping forward and changing and the course  of where we were headed. Judge Kavanaugh would already be seated as  Justice Kavanaugh for most of this week. So, I do think something  important was accomplished by showing that we could listen to each other  and we could take a time-out in order to have the FBI question and then  deliver to the Senate some more facts around the core allegations.

I am not satisfied with the scope of who was questioned. I expected that  there would be follow-on investigations questioning of corroborating  witnesses so that, for example, if Debbie Ramirez was questioned and at the  end of her questioning, she said here`s a dozen people who can offer  corroborating testimony, I had expected that those sorts of interviews  would take place. I know people have contacted my office, many other  Senate offices who were trying to get to the FBI who were offering to be  interviewed and who were not interviewed.

MADDOW: Senator, you mentioned your friend Republican Senator Jeff Flake  and there has obviously been such a hot spotlight on him this week because  of the way he`s publicly wrestled with this nomination and with issues of  the FBI investigation and the pace of the nomination as you just described.  I know that you`ve been in close contact with him through at least some of  this process. I don`t want to ask you to betray any confidences.

But can you tell us anything about where he`s at in his process and what  his ongoing concerns may be or if he has made up his mind?

COONS: I can`t, and if I knew, I wouldn`t betray his confidence. I can  simply say this, that he is someone who because of our friendship and  because of some of the stories he had heard and because of the testimony  and because of the way he saw the judiciary committee being torn apart  right in front of us, he listened to his conscience and took a lot of abuse  from folks in his own party for insisting on this week pause. And I think  that was an important contribution here.
But to be clear about inspections, Jeff`s a conservative. He would like a  conservative justice on the Supreme Court. I`m not a conservative and I  would not like a conservative justice on the Supreme Court. We have  different views of jurisprudence and different views of which direction the  court should go in its future interpretation of the Constitution. But if I  were to look at this and imagine how he might be looking at this, questions  that we`d be bringing or I`d be bringing to the table wouldn`t be about  ideology, because the president has lots of other credentials conservatives  from whom he can choose.
I would be looking at questions of judicial temperament, given the very  sharp and partisan screed that Judge Kavanaugh unleashed on us in the  Judiciary Committee. He was understandably angry, feeling he was unjustly  accused. But there was a piece of argument to us that I think crossed the  line into partisanship.
Former justice, former Republican and Justice John Paul Stevens withdrew  his support from Kavanaugh today publicly because of the partisanship he  showed in that defense. And then second, I`d be looking at questions of  truthfulness. Whether or not in testimony to committee, Judge Kavanaugh  shaded the truth or was untruthful about a number of things. You know, I  frankly think when we get into details about words in his yearbook and what  they meant, we lose the average American.
But when he made definitive statements to staff attorneys or to the  committee, I did know this at this point, I didn`t know it at that point,  I`ve done this before, I have never done this before, and there is evidence  that puts that into question, then I think we have to have a conversation  about truthfulness.
So to me, fitness and truthfulness sit on top of this underlying body of  evidence of sexual assault allegations where after I reviewed the evidence  in front of the committee today, I still have unanswered questions.
MADDOW: And as you say, separate and apart from any ideological  consideration.
I do just have one last question for you, Senator, before I let you go, and  that is that there has been lots and lots of rumors. Obviously, this is a  fast developing news story tonight. Every reporter within smelling  distance of the beltway is working everything they possibly can to figure  out what`s going to happen tomorrow.
COONS: Yes.
MADDOW: Is it your sense there may be any other Republican senators who  are seriously considering wrestling with how they might vote, or is it your  sense that Senators Murkowski and Collins and Flake are really the only  ones who are at all even open to the possibility of voting no tomorrow?
COONS: I have -- I`ve had a number of conversations with friends and  colleagues just to sort of put forward my views on what`s happened and why  I`m comfortable voting against Judge Kavanaugh tomorrow, but I could not  say in any appropriate public way that they are undecided about what to do  tomorrow.
I do know that there are members who had -- who paused after Dr. Ford`s  testimony, which was compelling and who wrestle with the apparent  contradiction between Judge Kavanaugh`s certainty that he did not commit a  sexual assault and Dr. Ford`s compelling testimony that she was a victim of  sexual assault by Judge Kavanaugh, and there are colleagues who have  wrestled with how to reconcile that.
My hope is that they look beyond just the materials that were in front of  us today from the FBI, but also consider some of the folks who tried  testify to the FBI but were not able to and have now had their reports made  public or who are seeking to talk to senators. Frankly, in the end, the  FBI was not going produce a conclusion to us. They were just going give us  fax. We`re the decision-making and senators I know are wrestling with  their vote tomorrow, I think it will be a very close vote and I know it  will be very closely watched which is appropriate, because we look to the  Supreme Court as the guarantor of our constitutional liberties in this  country.
MADDOW: Democratic Senator Chris Coons of Delaware, showing your well- deserved reputation both for comity, c-o-m-I-t-y, and discretion, and your  ability to cross the aisle in dealing with your colleagues. Thank you for  helping us to understand the state of play tonight, Senator. Really  appreciate it.
COONS: Thank you, Rachel.

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