MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Cory Booker

Interview

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REID: So Democrats took a lot of heat yesterday for repeatedly continuing  to demand an FBI investigation into Dr. Ford`s claim. Republican Chairman  Chuck Grassley insisting that Senate committee staffers were perfectly  capable of conducting the investigation. Even after one of Grassley`s own  staffers had to resign last week after old sexual harassment allegations  against him emerged.

This has ban huge sticking point for Democrats, ever since Dr. Ford`s  allegation came to light. And today, they got Senator Flake on board with  that plan. And two more Republican senator, Senator Susan Collins of Maine  and Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska who as of yet remain undecided on  whether they will vote to confirm Judge Kavanaugh have come out in full  support of Senator Flake`s call for an FBI investigation. So has Senator  Joe Manchin, whose office insists that he is still undecided as well.

So this is a huge thing. The other thing that`s huge here is that a full  Senate floor vote that had originally been scheduled for as early as  tomorrow has now been postponed, probably for at least a week to make time  for the FBI to do its investigation.

There is still a lot of unknown, particularly when it comes to the scope of  the FBI investigation, whether it will only include Dr. Ford`s allegation,  or whether it will include others. But for Democrats, this is a new  reality that is very different from how things looked this morning when  Brett Kavanaugh`s confirmation to the Supreme Court appeared all but set in  stone.

And joining us now is Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey, a Democratic  member of the Senate Judiciary Committee who was at that dramatic meeting  today.

Senator, thank you so much for being here.

BOOKER: Joy, it`s really great to be on with you. Thank you for having  me.

REID: Thank you.

So walk us through, because it looked -- when we came in this morning and  all turned on the monitors here at MSNBC and I`m sure all around the  country, like this was just going to sail through. It all started to fall  apart when Jeff Flake came back from that elevator ride with those two  women who confronted him. Was that the turning point in the way things  were going today, or was there something else going on behind the scenes  that we didn`t see?

BOOKER: Well, I think Jeff has been struggling with this for a long time.  I was very disappointed when I heard that he was going to vote and support  it, and very happy when he began to engage in conversations with those of  us on the other side of the aisle.

And, look, there was a very strong shift not amongst Democrats, not among  the Democratic senators on the committee, but remember, the American Bar  Association, which had supported Kavanaugh`s nomination, the president came  out and said that there should be a more thorough investigation. The  former -- the law professor at Yale, actually my constitutional law  professor who supported Kavanaugh testified for him, came out and said  there should be more of an investigation. Even Alan Dershowitz on Fox  News, someone who has been supporting this nomination.

So you saw a shift of people saying what is he really afraid of? Why don`t  they do a more thorough investigation? Why are they rushing to a vote?

And so, I think in the totality of circumstances, and I give a lot of  credit to folks who are out there pressing and protesting and telling their  stories and sharing their stories. I think that Jeff finally stood up and  said to me, as he said to me in private, for the good of the nation, we  need to pause here and do a more thorough investigation.

REID: And for Democrats during the Kavanaugh and Ford testimony, was there  a plan going in that the central sticking point that all of you were going  to bring up over and over again, because there was a lot of commentary on  social media. Why are they harping on the FBI investigation? Was that the  plan going into the hearing?

BOOKER: I think all of us wanted to show that the way this process is  running was a deep insult to Dr. Ford. Remember, she was willing to come,  but she asked for a number of things which were rejected out of hand. She  asked for an FBI investigation. She asked for a number of other witnesses,  pertinent witnesses that could corroborate her story, be called. She asked  for the other person in the room to be called, and a lot more.

And she was denied, denied, denied. And they rushed to a hearing, tried to  really pressure her to coming into a hearing in a rushed manner and tried  to create what they wanted to do which was a he said/she said. And then  she came forward with such a powerful testimony. All the more credible,  all the more believable to people that might have been doubting her story.

And so, I give her a lot of raw credit forecasting such a shadow on  Kavanaugh who has said so many things that strained credulity that really I  find hard to believe that he said and he talked about. So I think that  public opinion had really shifted, that this was going to be a rush, that  yet another woman who was telling her truth, yet another example of a  powerful patriarchy that`s preventing the truth from coming forward. And  when it does, what happens to those people who are truth tellers.

So I think this was a god moment for the country. I am grateful that Jeff  Flake saw fit to make this happen, and I`m hoping now that this  investigation isn`t just a perfunctory thing to get it out of the way, but  that they do a thorough investigation, interviewing all of the people, not  just Mark Judge, but all of the people that have been named by these two  individuals who came before the Senate so we can really get to the bottom  of what`s going on here.

REID: And as a United States senator and somebody who will be a recipient  of whatever that FBI investigation finds, do you know what the scope of it  is? Is it just going to be an investigation of Dr. Ford`s claims, or will  there be an additional look into the other women who have come forward? Do  you know if that is going to be a part of what was agreed to today?

BOOKER: I don`t know. When we agreed to pause for up to a week for an FBI  investigation, the elements of that investigation were not discussed. It  seems responsible to investigate this matter thoroughly, but there have  been two other allegations that have been made that should be investigated.  They should not just be left out there.

And so, there are three women who have come forward, and their stories  should be investigated. They should be listened to. They should not just be brushed aside, diminished or degraded.

And so, I`m hoping that the FBI will do a thorough job for a background  check. If someone was applying for a job and had this much -- I don`t care  what the job is, if you`re applying for a federal job of some import, the  FBI does background checks. They would not leave such serious allegations  of misconduct uninvestigated, and they should explore and investigate those  other two allegations as well.

REID: And lastly, this is speculative, but let`s say either way, whether  Judge Kavanaugh is confirmed or not, he still sits on the federal bench.  If Democrats control the United States Senate and control the Congress next  year, do you anticipate that Democrats would want to call people like Mark  Judge and would continue this inquiry even after the outcome of this vote,  whether or not he gets confirmed?

BOOKER: Well, let me make it clear. I believe Dr. Ford. I believe not  only her story but I believe that in the context of this moment in American  history, not just this nomination, but at a time where one out of three  American women according to the Center for Disease Control experienced  sexual violence, sexual assault in their life times. I believe she is  nothing less than an American hero. She has stood up to this body, and she  has told her truth, despite the harassment, death threats and more.

And I believe that she should have a thorough investigation. And if it`s  not gotten, yes, the Senate or the House had the power to investigate.  That`s our job. And whether it`s -- we`re a coequal branch of government  with the judiciary and with the presidency, and we have responsibility to  conduct investigations.
So I don`t want to speak to what will happen after these midterms because  right now in this moment in time, we still have not taken a vote there are  undecided senators. We have a credible accusation against this person. Do  you want to promote somebody? Would you hire them as a baby-sitter if they  had someone like Dr. Ford having come forward having told such a story?

I`m glad the FBI is investigating. I hope they do a really thorough  investigation, and we have to a lot to go through between now and the time  we take a vote, and everybody has got to check themselves about voting.  It`s not about a condemnation or a criminal trial about Kavanaugh`s guilt  or innocence.

This is a job interview. Is she credible enough to say with all the other  people that the president has on his list, is this the person that we want  to put on the highest court in the land for a lifetime appointment. I say  no.

REID: Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey, thank you so much for being with  us tonight. Really appreciate it.

BOOKER: Joy, thank you very much, as always. Thank you.

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