MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Amy Klobuchar

Interview

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MADDOW: Joining us now is Senator Amy Klobuchar. She is a member of the  Senate Judiciary Committee.
Senator Klobuchar, it`s nice to have you with us tonight. Thanks very much  for being here.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Thank you, Rachel.

MADDOW: So I have a couple of things I want to ask you about. I want to  talk to you about the now seemingly foundering -- potentially foundering  nomination of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court. Before I talk to you  about that, though, I also want to talk to you about the sort of national  fire drill we had this morning when it appeared for an hour or so that the  president was about to fire Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. It was  sort of a wild ride in the news this morning.

But I wanted to get your impressions about what happened there and your  reaction to that.

KLOBUCHAR: This was truly everyone`s worst fear. We have this ongoing  important investigation based on our national security concerns with a man,  Rod Rosenstein, who has been a U.S. attorney under both Republican and  Democratic presidents, number two in the Justice Department, only recently  announced indictments coming out of that investigation of 12 members of the  Russian intelligence GRU involving hacking into state elections, stealing  500,000 names from voter data records. It`s unbelievable to me that they  would even consider this.

And so, then we find out, as you know, and described as a fire drill, oh,  well, I guess we`re going to meet again in two days. And so, I don`t know  what to make of it except that we have a job in the Senate to protect our  Constitution and to protect that investigation. Rod Rosenstein oversees  it, and it`s very important that he stay in his job. And that`s why I`d  like to pass the bill that we got through the committee on a 14-7  bipartisan vote that protects the special counsel.

MADDOW: That bill, as you said, passed out of committee. Senator Mitch  McConnell said publicly that it`s not going to the floor of the Senate. He  would not allow it to be voted on. I can`t imagine it passing the  Republican-controlled House.

KLOBUCHAR: Well, not to mention they`re going home. They`re not even  going to be around.

MADDOW: So they`re not even there to vote no on it.

KLOBUCHAR: They`re there for like another week or so. I mean, it`s  unbelievable while all of this is going on.
So, you know, one thing we do have we have a rule in place. It got put in  place after this Nixon Saturday night massacre, which says that you cannot  fire special counsel unless you have good cause. So, obviously, that`s  something. And the other is all of our colleagues on the Republican side  who have repeatedly said that we must protect the Mueller investigation.

Now, if Rosenstein was completely unfairly fired, we don`t know who he  would -- who would take his place, and that person, even if they allowed it  to continue, could reduce staffing, could reduce funding, could actually  change the entire investigation so that they wouldn`t really be doing their  work. That`s why this is such a big deal.

MADDOW: I`m reading your -- I`m unscientifically reading your body language and reading your tone of voice on this, and what I am inferring which you may not be implying, what I am inferring is that you are 
expecting Rosenstein to get fired.

KLOBUCHAR: No --

MADDOW: That whatever happened this morning, it seems like you are  anticipating that the president is going to go there. Am I right to infer  that?

KLOBUCHAR: I`m not certain of that. You know, the president likes to  throw things out there, and obviously, live there were some other things in  the news today which was related to this because he nominated someone who  has this very expansive view of executive power that you have talked about  several times, and that is so concerning on the Supreme Court, but it may  be that he just was decided he`d throw this into the mix this week. We had  that news report out of "The New York Times" and Rosenstein may have simply  been in good faith talking to him about it.

But we certainly heard from the Justice Department that, you know, they  thought he was going to be fired, and then from the White House that he was  going to resign. So, all of it seemed designed to invoke fear and create  havoc for the Mueller investigation. I think that`s the very least of it.

So, we don`t know if that means he`s going to fire him. He is going to  meet with him again. I think that`s a better sign than not meeting with  him, and hopefully Rod Rosenstein is going to be able to make his case, and  he has said that this didn`t happen quite as described.

And so, I think that it will be really important for him to be able to do  that, and I know that they`ll there will be support on both sides of the  aisle for keeping this investigation going. Not from everyone, but from a  lot of Republican senators. You just can`t rip this investigation apart  when they have issued so many indictments that affect our nation`s national  security when a foreign power was trying to cyberattack us.

And I don`t use meddling. That`s like when I call my daughter on a  Saturday night and ask her what she`s doing. That`s meddling. This is an  actual cyberattack.

MADDOW: Senator Klobuchar, if you can hold on for just one second, I would  love to talk to you about some of the developing news even just over the  course of this hour with the Kavanaugh nomination.

KLOBUCHAR: Of course.

MADDOW: Can you stick with us? All right.

KLOBUCHAR: I`d love to.

MADDOW: We`ll be right back with Senator Amy Klobuchar when we come back.  Stay with us.

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MADDOW: Joining us once again is Senator Amy Klobuchar. She`s a member of  the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Senator thank you for sticking with us. Much appreciated.

KLOBUCHAR: Thank you.

MADDOW: So, Judge Kavanaugh tonight did something I`ve never seen before  from a Supreme Court nominee. He did a televised interview, sort of making  the case for his confirmation. We don`t usually see Supreme Court nominees  do that sort of thing in the middle of their confirmation process, but I 
think that`s at least a tacit admission that this nomination may be really on the rocks.

Are you in favor of the Thursday hearing going ahead the way that its  currently constituted? As far as we understand, it will be testimony from  Judge Kavanaugh and also from Christine Blasey Ford but from no other  witnesses.

Are you in favor of that committee -- that hearing going ahead?

KLOBUCHAR: I wanted this hearing to be different. I felt very strongly just as we`ve done with many nominees you should when you have new information, you reopen the FBI investigation. It`s not a criminal 
investigation. It`s a background check.

So when you have very important information that comes forward, you look at  it again. That`s happened with 10 nominees in just the last few months for  other positions in the government. They reopened the investigation.

So, it should be a hearing where we can hear from other people that were  involved in this incident, that she has mentioned, other witnesses, even  for Anita Hill, they had a number of other witnesses. That being said, I  would like to hear from her. I have not met her. I think it`s really  important we hear from her, and I understand that her lawyer is simply  trying to negotiate this.

Look what these guys are doing. We are more than happy to have this be a  hearing where the senators ask questions and they ask her questions and  they ask the nominee questions. That`s how we have hearings.
However, the Republicans -- there`s 11 men as you know on their side  instead of that old movie "12 Angry Men," it`s 11, don`t want to look so  angry men, I guess. And so, they want to have a woman take their place and  ask all these questions and, of course, her lawyer wants to talk to that  attorney, wants to figure what`s going on here. It`s just not normal what  they`re proposing and I think that`s what`s happening right now. Of  course, I only heard this tonight.

MADDOW: The other thing evolving quickly since the terms of the hearing  were initially agreed to over the weekend is that a couple more allegations  have come forward in the "New Yorker" a story that dates to judge  Kavanaugh`s time as an undergraduate at Yale was published, and just this  evening, earlier this hour, Michael Avenatti explained that he has a new  client who within 48 hours will make public what he says will be a serious  allegation dating to Judge Kavanaugh`s high school days and she`ll make  that case in the media.
With these other accusers coming forward, should those be folded in  Thursday`s testimony? Should there be a second hearing? How should those  things be handled?

KLOBUCHAR: Again, it this wouldn`t have been rammed through in the way it  was, where we still have three years of staff secretary documents we  haven`t seen, 100,000 documents over at the White House, and this new  information. I`m a former prosecutor, I like to look at evidence, and it  was interesting to have him on this show, but, of course, you want to look  at the evidence and see what it is.

But again, an FBI investigation, a background check investigation that we  routinely have for judges much less of course the highest court of the land would allow people, and the people on the committee to actually look at the evidence before a decision is made. And that is what is missing in this case.

MADDOW: Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, a member of the Senate  Judiciary Committee, thank you very much, Senator. It`s nice to have you  here.

KLOBUCHAR: Thanks, Rachel. Great to be on.

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