CNN "The Lead With Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois

Interview

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SCIUTTO: We're back with the breaking news.

Brett Kavanaugh, a seat on the Supreme Court, all but certain now with enough votes to confirm Kavanaugh in a vote tomorrow.

I want to bring in Democratic senator, minority whip, Dick Durbin, of course, also a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, who had a chance to question Kavanaugh during his testimony.

Senator, thanks very much for taking the time.

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Glad to be with you.

SCIUTTO: So Kavanaugh, he has the votes. Your reaction?

DURBIN: Well, I sat on the floor and listened very carefully to Senator Collins' presentation much. I respect Senator Collins. Susan has been my friend for many years and worked on many things. But I respectfully disagree with her.

I don't know how she and others can come to the floor and say how credible Dr. Ford was, how the allegations she made were so specific, and yet they dismissed them.

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I asked Dr. Ford, my first question at the hearing, what is your degree of certainty when it comes to the fact that it was Brett Kavanaugh who attacked you? She said 100 percent -- 100 percent. I don't know how you can walk away from that statement.

I think it was clear that she believes he was the attacker and said as much under oath. The FBI investigation avoided all the corroborating and character witnesses which she suggested they meet with. That didn't leave a very credible result.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: It did -- it was striking, because we have been speaking all week to folks who are sex crimes investigators, prosecutors, et cetera. And they say that often victims remember details of the attacker, the laughing, perhaps a hand over the mouth, et cetera. But not necessarily the exact time on the clock, or the street address, et cetera.

Did those words from her almost similar to President Trump questioning her story during his rally, were those words particularly striking to you?

DURBIN: Well, I can tell you, when the president decided to mock and ridicule Dr. Ford, he went a step too far. His appalling conduct, which we witness on a regular basis, reached a new low at that Mississippi rally. And I'm afraid it sent a message to an awful lot of victims of sexual violence.

That, be prepared. You're going to be mocked, ridiculed, even shunned. That's a terrible message to come out of this episode.

SCIUTTO: One of your Democratic colleagues, of course, Senator Manchin, West Virginia, he voted yes, as well. Granted, a deep red state, but Democrats were not able to stay unified on this. Your reaction to Manchin's yes vote. DURBIN: Well, there's an awful lot of people who think we crack a

whip here, since I guess that's my title. And we have all these ways to twist arms and discipline our members.

It just doesn't work that way. Individual members have to reach their own conclusions, particularly on historic decisions. We can talk to them. We can give them our point of view.

Ultimately, they make the decisions. That's what the Senate is all about.

SCIUTTO: Are you disappointed, personally, in Senator Manchin?

DURBIN: I'm not going to say that. I will say I had hoped he would vote the other way. But Joe is my colleague, we have worked on many things and I hope we continue to in the future.

SCIUTTO: The midterms are just about a month away from now. Republicans convinced, and there is some evidence in the polling, frankly, a tightening of the generic ballot lead for the Democrats. Republicans convinced this is an energizing -- this fight has been an energizing issue for their voters.

Do you believe this will energize Democrats to get to the polls?

DURBIN: I know it will. And I have seen the polling data that's coming back from my home state of Illinois in congressional races, and I know that the challengers to many incumbent Republicans are doing very, very well, breathing down the necks of those incumbents.

This debate in Washington is not going to change it. People are more concerned about preexisting conditions, the availability of health care, and whether they can elect men and women who will stand up to this president when he steps over the line.

SCIUTTO: What about women in particular? Of course, it goes without saying that women -- I've heard this, and I know you have, as well. People close to me, people, your constituents, et cetera. They watch this with particular attention and emotion and reaction, particularly Christine Blasey Ford's testimony.

What do you say to them now? Some who might be disappointed that Democrats were not able to stop this nomination from their perspective?

DURBIN: My message to them is don't be discouraged at all. The day is coming, and soon, where we are moving more toward justice when it comes to the relationship with women, sexual violence and harassment.

I will tell you, as a father of daughters and granddaughters, I want them to be able to grow up fear-free when it comes to the country they live in, and the society they live in. This is not a setback. What we're going through today, it is a step forward.

SCIUTTO: If Kavanaugh is confirmed, again, all indications are he has the votes, if people stick with those votes tomorrow, the decisions of this court, particularly that key position, because Kennedy, who Kavanaugh would be replacing, of course, had been a swing vote on so many 5-4 decisions, giving this court a conservative slant for decades on so many issues. Congress could pass, for instance, gun control legislation. A court could reject that on issues like Roe v. Wade, on issues like with redistricting, with intense political ramifications.

How do Democrats counter that?

DURBIN: Well, we do our best to pass good laws, and hope that we'll be in the majority to do so. The Supreme Court does have the last word, and many of these cases, and at this moment, if Judge Kavanaugh goes forward to be on the Supreme Court, he would make up the 5-4 difference, we think, in terms of conservative versus progressive.

But, you know, tomorrow is another day. We don't know what the next vacancy will be. We don't know what the next opportunity will be. We're going to be prepared and take this next election very seriously.

SCIUTTO: Final question. I was able to speak to one of your colleagues on the judiciary committee this morning, Senator Kennedy.

[16:35:04] And he said something that strikes me as a bipartisan -- bipartisan agreement. And that is that the court politically is in trouble here. He used the words -- the process is a mess. He said that the court is viewed by a large percentage of American people as another extension of politics, and that this process added to that impression among the American public.

What does Congress do about that?

DURBIN: Well, I tell you, the Senate used to have a standard of 60 votes. Had there been that same standard applied to this situation in this Supreme Court vacancy, it might have been a much different debate. It could have been a much different nominee.

So we have kind of gone beyond that. I don't know that we can ever put that back in the bottle. But if we can move to the point where we require bipartisanship, when it comes to the selection, it would make a significant difference.

SCIUTTO: Senator Dick Durbin, thank you very much for joining us this afternoon.

DURBIN: Good to be with you.

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