CNN "Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees" - Transcript: Interview with Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii

Interview

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COOPER: That's obviously Professor Ford. We're going to be showing you the judge, Judge Kavanaugh in just a moment.

But joining us right now is a Democratic member of the committee, Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii.

Thanks so much for being with us.

First of all, on Professor Ford, I'm wondering what you made of her testimony, because I know going into this, you had spoken that you believed her.

SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D-HI), SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: I think there were all the indicators of the truthfulness of what she was telling us, and her testimony was very powerful in its truth. There's no reason for her to lie, and she, as well as the other two people who have made reports about judge Kavanaugh, have all said we want to talk to the FBI.

So I don't think that people who are lying would just go before the FBI and face perjury.

COOPER: Do you believe judge Kavanaugh is lying? Because somebody is not telling the truth here.

HIRONO: I prefer to say that I believe Dr. Ford.

Now, the thing with Judge Kavanaugh is that he really hinged his testimony on -- first of all, he accused the Democrats of some kind of a vast conspiracy to do him in.

COOPER: Including the Clintons.

HIRONO: Yes, why drag them -- why not drag them in it every chance? So -- but he did say that Dr. Ford was not part of that conspiracy,

and he said she very well probably had a special sexual experience, it just wasn't him. And to bolster that, the three people that she named, one of whom was in the room, who refuses to testify, he said the other two said nothing happened. No, that's not what they said. What they said was, we don't know.

COOPER: We're not aware.

HIRONO: We have no recollection.

So, that is -- you know, for a judge, one should know the difference between somebody exonerating him and somebody saying I don't know. And one of whom said that I believe Dr. Ford.

COOPER: His friend or former friend, Mark Judge, who obviously was not testifying today, he kept -- Judge Kavanaugh kept saying he has, under penalty of perjury, given a report, given a statement, but Senator Blumenthal I think was pointed out, it's actually not a statement from him, it's from his attorney.

HIRONO: His attorney. And whatever it is.

But you know, it's conclusive statements when you say -- nothing happened or I didn't do it, or I don't remember is what he said, then that's the kind of statement that should be subject to a lot more questioning. And the thing is, that the Republicans and the president do not want to reopen the FBI investigation. We're all calling for that. And that's not happening.

So, then, Judge Kavanaugh was asked time and again today, he could break this impasse. He kept saying, I'll do whatever the committee wants. He knows full well that the committee, led by the Republicans, has no intention of asking for an FBI report. He knows very well that the president is going to do that either. He can break that impasse. He refuses to do it.

COOPER: He was not -- he at no point would he go on the record saying, yes, I want an FBI investigation.

HIRONO: No. And, in fact, Kamala Harris tried to do that, too. And she concluded, well, the answer must be no.

COOPER: You raised in your questioning with Judge Ford the issue of temperament.

[20:10:01] HIRONO: Yes.

COOPER: Obviously, he came out when he made his opening statement which was quite a lengthy one, I think it was in excess of 40 minutes or so, some people would say it was angry, some people say it was indignant, whatever adjective you want to use. Was your questioning about temperament related to his opening statement?

HIRONO: That too, but also that there are all kinds of evidence as far as I'm concerned, statements from people who have known him over the years, who said he was really a bad drunk and he would get belligerent and very aggressive when drunk, and he denies everything. So, it's really credibility.

And when he says that the three people who are there, two of whom said exonerated him and one that doesn't remember, all of them don't remember, for him to say that he didn't do it, and all of these three people that Dr. Ford mentioned exonerated him, that is not true.

COOPER: I wonder what you make of when Professor Ford was testifying, she was being questioned by prosecutor that the Republicans had picked, when Judge Kavanaugh, he began -- he was questioned by the same prosecutor, but right after Dick Durbin kind of got him to -- was asking him about whether or not he would call for an FBI investigation, he didn't really seem to know how to answer it, Lindsey Graham stepped in, and after that the prosecutor basically disappeared.

HIRONO: The prosecutor was there to ask Dr. Ford the questions, and we know why, because the Republicans on the committee did not want to reveal themselves to the American public. And I don't think that the prosecutor did them any favors either, because she acted as though this is a criminal case, and she was cross examining Dr. Ford.

COOPER: Senator, if you could just hold one moment, I want to go to Manu Raju. I'm just understanding he's gotten some new information -- Manu.

RAJU: Yes, that's right. Two Republican senators just emerged, saying the Republicans are planning to move ahead with this vote as soon as tomorrow. Tomorrow, the plan is to have a vote in the Senate Judiciary Committee, assuming that they can move forward. They're going to have a first procedural vote on the Senate floor on Saturday. That would set up a final confirmation vote early next week.

Now, this is just discussed in a closed door meeting. Two senators emerge, Bill Cassidy of Louisiana, Roy Blount of Missouri, who's a member of the Republican leadership. They both just spoke to reporters and made that announcement that the parties prepare to move forward.

Now, the key thing here, Anderson, it's not clear yet whether they have the votes to confirm Brett Kavanaugh, because a handful of key senators, Jeff Flake, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, the Republicans, and on the Democrat side, Joe Manchin, for instance, uncertain what they will do. So, a roll of the dice of sorts by deciding to move forward tomorrow in committee. We'll see if anything changes.

There have been a lot of changes in the last several days and weeks. But for the moment, right now, we expect them to try to move forward in the committee tomorrow and try to see if Kavanaugh can get that lifetime seat by early next week, Anderson.

COOPER: Yes. All right. Manu, thanks for that.

Senator, I'm wondering your reaction to that? It seems like there's going to be a vote -- HIRONO: It just totally comports with the rush that the Republicans

have to confirm Judge Kavanaugh, in spite of two other allegations that come forward, credible reports. They have no interest in hearing from anybody else. They want to rush this. They've always been on that track.

And so, I think that this is very much a message to the American people. They should know that people are watching, particularly women, but certainly what I would call the enlightened men. And how we treat women who come forward, which takes great courage, by the way, because sexual assault is still one of the most underreported crimes in the entire country.

They do not come forward -- look at what happened to Dr. Ford. That's why they don't come forward. So, it's a message I would say, not a good one.

COOPER: Do you think if Professor Ford had given a statement with the same amount of anger or indignation, the same amount of, you know, tremor in her voice or tears, that it would be responded to in the same way that it was when Judge Kavanaugh did it?

HIRONO: I think a lot of people responded to her honesty, and she said she was really afraid when she came to testify. This is not what she does.

Meanwhile, you have a judge, that's got the entire array of the president and everyone else coaching him and everything else, speak.

So, she was very effective in her honesty. And as far as Judge Kavanaugh, I have major issues regarding his credibility on a lot of cases that I asked him about. And just as he misrepresented and misstated what the witnesses said, he's also misstated cases, holdings, the issues of the case.

That's why when I asked certain questions during the hearing, I said, how can we have you on the Supreme Court when you can't even cite cases that you misapplied the holdings to the point where his fellow judges call him out on his dissent?

COOPER: The American Bar Association, though, seems to be positive on him.

[20:15:01] HIRONO: That's just one factor. But you know what? Do they read the kind of cases the way we did? I doubt it.

COOPER: Senator, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you very much.

HIRONO: Thank you.

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