CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Senator John Kennedy
Interview
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SCIUTTO: No question. Manu Raju, on the Hill, thanks very much. Joining us now is Senator John Kennedy, he's a Republican of the state
of Louisiana. Crucially he's a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, of course is considering Kavanaugh's nomination.
Senator Kennedy, thanks so much for taking the time with us this morning.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: You bet. Thanks for having me.
SCIUTTO: So on this issue, and granting, it is a difficult one. It's a difficult one for all involved. You said just yesterday in an interview, quote, "I want to hear her side of the story."
[09:05:05] You also said that if the allegations are credible, it would affect your vote.
KENNEDY: Mm-hmm.
SCIUTTO: Should Monday in your view be Ford's only chance to testify as to her account in public?
KENNEDY: Well, I don't have enough information to make that decision. I don't have any information at all. Everything I know about this I've read in the media or seen in the media, and I'm not saying the media is wrong. I'm just saying that I'm a United States senator. My people elected me to make a decision, and I need -- I need facts and evidence to make that decision.
I'm a little more sanguine than some. I think there is a reasonable possibility that Dr. Ford will attend the hearing on Monday. I mean, if you put this in context, originally she wanted to remain anonymous. Then Dr. Ford changed her mind. I understand she actually called and reached out to the "Washington Post" and either she or somebody on her behalf leaked her letter to the "New Yorker."
Next she asked for a public hearing. Last night I understand she changed her mind. But I think there is a reasonable possibility she'll change her mind yet again. We're scheduled to meet 10:00. I have marked that on my calendar from 10:00 to 5:00 p.m. and I'll stay as late as everybody wants to. It's room 216, Philip Hart Building. And I'm looking forward to hearing from her.
Now if she doesn't want to come, that's her call. If she's uncomfortable doing it in a public hearing, I think it would be a mistake. I think the American people need to hear from both Dr. Ford and Judge Kavanaugh and be able to judge for themselves. But if she wants to do it privately --
SCIUTTO: Let me ask you --
KENNEDY: -- we can do it privately.
SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this because her lawyer laid out the possibility -- I don't know if it's correct to call it a condition, but she said that Ford would like an investigation, an independent investigation possibility by the FBI before coming before the Senate panel.
Do you think that this is a reasonable request? And would you, as a member of the Judiciary Committee, be willing to allow her that request?
KENNEDY: Well, let me make a couple of points. Number one, I don't have the information to make that request. I've never even seen her letter. As you know, Senator Feinstein did not forward a copy to the rest of us. Number two, I note that Dr. Ford, as is her right, she has changed lawyers. And so I don't know if the current position is a result of her new lawyer or it's a change in an approach.
HARLOW: She has a --
KENNEDY: A number --
HARLOW: Excuse me, Senator. Just to jump in, she has a team of attorneys. Katz is one that we've heard first from.
KENNEDY: OK.
HARLOW: Then we heard from one of her colleagues. I believe it's the same law firm. But I'm wondering, you know, that doesn't seem to --
(CROSSTALK)
KENNEDY: Can I make my third point, Poppy? Can I make my third point?
HARLOW: Jim's question is, should the FBI investigate?
KENNEDY: Yes. Yes.
HARLOW: Sure.
KENNEDY: Yes, I heard it. Let me make my third point. My third point is that as a United States senator, and I think we're all in this -- in this situation, all 100 of us, you've got to have some evidence, some facts.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: So here's what we do --
KENNEDY: I can --
HARLOW: Here's what we do know because --
KENNEDY: Poppy, let me finish.
HARLOW: I heard your three points. And --
KENNEDY: Poppy, you're better than this. Let me finish my answer. Let me finish my answer. You're better than this.
HARLOW: Your third one is salient and you said there has to be some facts. And I just want to know for our viewers the facts that the "Washington Post" reported, which include therapist's notes.
KENNEDY: OK. Let me --
HARLOW: From 2012.
KENNEDY: Right.
HARLOW: Which include a polygraph test. Yes?
KENNEDY: Can I talk now?
HARLOW: Yes.
KENNEDY: Oh, OK. I need to see the facts. And while I respect and trust the media, all we have are -- all I have are media reports. That's why we called the hearing. We met as a group day before yesterday. When I say we, I mean the Republicans on the Judiciary Committee. There was unanimity that we should reach out to Dr. Ford and her lawyer or lawyers, and make that offer and start taking written statements.
The minority staff under Senator Feinstein refused to cooperate, so our majority staff went forward. We didn't hear back from Dr. Ford's lawyers.
[09:10:02] So yesterday we met and said, OK, maybe she is concerned, she meaning Dr. Ford, about a public hearing. So we agreed to make the offer that, well, if you'd rather do it privately, that's your call.
I would prefer to do it publicly because I think the American people have a right to hear both from Dr. Ford and Judge Kavanaugh.
HARLOW: So --
SCIUTTO: Let me ask you --
KENNEDY: But if she wants to do it privately -- but you've got to start somewhere.
HARLOW: But --
KENNEDY: And to me it's -- can I make one other point?
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: I really want to get to Jim's important question.
KENNEDY: OK.
HARLOW: And we know you don't have all day. And that is the FBI. I mean --
SCIUTTO: Should the FBI have a role? Because, as you know, Senator Kennedy, the FBI can investigate this if the president asks them to. And there is precedent. During the Anita Hill investigation, President George Bush, a Republican, ordered the FBI to investigate her allegations at the time. They did so in three days and then reported back to the White House.
Would that be -- why isn't that a reasonable step for this president to take in light of how important this nomination is and then of course it is a lifetime appointment to the court.
KENNEDY: That's a fair question. I don't have the information to make that decision. I do have media reports. I think they all stem from the -- I don't know a single senator, by the way, or a single reporter who has talked to Dr. Ford. I would like to talk to her. I have talked to Judge Brett Kavanaugh yesterday. But I don't have enough information to say we ought to go forward. All I have are media reports and I don't mean to disrespect the media. I do respect the media.
HARLOW: Right.
KENNEDY: But with all due respect, I've got to make an important decision here, and I'd like to hear from Dr. Ford and see some evidence.
HARLOW: And you do. You have to make a decision so important to the American people and future generations of American citizens.
KENNEDY: Yes.
HARLOW: That we are very interested in whether or not you believe there should be an FBI or an independent body investigation, a nonpartisan investigation. Are you comfortable voting on the nomination of Judge Kavanaugh without that, yes or no?
KENNEDY: No. I want to have a hearing Monday.
HARLOW: Well, that's -- so that's not my question.
KENNEDY: And in fact --
HARLOW: That's not -- so, I mean, you want to have a hearing Monday. I think it begs the question of what is the priority of the Senate Judiciary Committee? Is it to have a hearing and a vote on the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh before the Supreme Court term starts in October or is it to find out what the truth is? And to do that, to have an investigation as Jim noted we saw in '91 with Anita Hill. What's the priority of the committee and you, Senator?
KENNEDY: Well, I could tell you -- I'm sorry. Can I --
SCIUTTO: Please, go ahead.
KENNEDY: Can I go ahead? I can tell you what my priority is. My priority is fairness and the truth. I want to be fair to Dr. Ford and I want to be fair to Judge Brett Kavanaugh. The point I was going to make is that I think he have to put this in context. The confirmation hearing is over. Judge Kavanaugh testified for 32 hours. We had a private confidential meeting, just the senators and Judge Kavanaugh afterwards to talk about anything nobody wanted to bring up in the hearing.
Senator Feinstein chose not to attend. That's her right. Then we had, I think, 48 hours to summit written questions. There were 1200 written questions submitted, and I think those have all been answered. And then Senator Feinstein announced the letter. So we're at the end of the process.
HARLOW: But why?
KENNEDY: Again --
HARLOW: I mean, that's a self-selected end, Senator. Respectfully.
KENNEDY: No, no, actually it's not.
HARLOW: It is a self-selected end for a position --
KENNEDY: No, no., I disagree with this.
HARLOW: -- for a lifetime position on the highest court in the land. It is. The deadlines are set by Chairman Grassley.
KENNEDY: Under normal procedure what we would do when evidence or allegations come in after the hearing is completed, minority staff and majority staff would sit down with the person bringing forward the information and take statements. Now, they're not sworn, but if they don't tell the truth, it's a felony. And then those statements would be distributed to all members of the committee, the Judiciary Committee.
We have been trying to do that in addition to offering a hearing. The minority staff, which Senator Feinstein controls, refuses to cooperate with us. So a majority --
SCIUTTO: Let me ask you --
KENNEDY: If I can just finish. Our majority staff has been proceeding, and we called the hearing. And to answer your question again, it's the best answer I can give, Poppy, because it's the truth. I don't have enough information to answer your question about whether we should go further.
[09:15:00] KENNEDY: I think we ought to have a hearing, and I think there's a reasonable possibility, given her past behavior, that Dr. Ford will change her mind again.
JIM SCIUTTO, CO-HOST, NEWSROOM: I just have to -- if you're -- and again, I don't want to take too much of your time. But if your fundamental --
KENNEDY: No, I've got all day, I've got all day --
SCIUTTO: Because if your fundamental --
POPPY HARLOW, CO-HOST, NEWSROOM: All right --
SCIUTTO: Complaint or shortcoming is that you don't have enough information --
HARLOW: Right.
SCIUTTO: As a senator on the -- on the Judiciary Committee, can you vote on this nomination without hearing from Ford under oath and frankly from Kavanaugh as well under oath for his side of the story? Can you make that decision? A lifetime decision for this court without getting that information under oath testimony from Ford before your committee?
KENNEDY: Well, let me quibble with one thing you said, and it may be my fault and not yours --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
KENNEDY: But I don't have enough first-hand information. I just have media reports, and while I trust our media, I'd prefer to go to the original source on something this important.
SCIUTTO: Well, that's why I'm asking you --
KENNEDY: That's number one --
SCIUTTO: Go to her to find --
KENNEDY: Number two, to answer --
HARLOW: And you -- and you spoke to Kavanaugh on the phone.
KENNEDY: Yes, let me answer -- can I go?
HARLOW: Yes --
SCIUTTO: Sure.
KENNEDY: Let me answer the original question. I'm going to cross that bridge when we come to it. I'm a lot more sanguine than -- I can't read people's minds, but I'm a lot more sanguine than some. I think there is still -- there's a reasonable possibility given that Dr. Ford has changed her mind a couple of times, I'm not criticizing her -- that she will appear on Monday, and I hope she does.
And -- if she does appear, I will get together with my colleagues, we can choose not to believe it, but we really are trying to be fair and we'll talk about what to do next. That's the best answer I can give you right now because things seem to be changing by the moment.
HARLOW: I think one of the --
SCIUTTO: They are no questions.
HARLOW: One of the reasons we're asking is because, you know, hindsight is often 2020. And there are lessons that many think should be learned from 1991, and should be learned from, for example, a number of witnesses that were going to testify for Anita Hill not being called to testify, right? So we're just trying to get -- KENNEDY: Valid point --
HARLOW: Get at, you know whether expediency and whether time --
SCIUTTO: What's more important --
HARLOW: And what's more important?
SCIUTTO: What's more important? Is it the schedule? Or is it -- because you can argue, could you not, that an FBI investigation is not just in Ford's interest, but it's also in Kavanaugh's interest, right? Because he has an allegation hanging over his head which he has denied repeatedly. Wouldn't be in his interest as well to have a fulsome investigation for the possibility of clearing his name once and for all?
KENNEDY: Well, the deadline -- that's a good question. The deadline I'm interested in is October 1. I know some people have talked about the midterms, and, look, I'm a politician, but I'm really not interested at this juncture in any more political or cultural combat.
The deadline I've always been looking toward is October 1. And I'm only going to go back to my original point. I sure hope Dr. Ford comes Monday, if she doesn't, that is her call. If she's nervous about doing it in a public hearing, we will do it private. Though, I've got --
SCIUTTO: Right --
KENNEDY: To tell you in my opinion is that would be a mistake. I think --
HARLOW: Well, listen --
KENNEDY: The American people -- I think the American people need to hear from both.
HARLOW: I have both Kavanaugh --
SCIUTTO: Let's stay in touch -- let's keep up the conversation -- sorry, go ahead.
KENNEDY: OK, I was just going to say, I did call Judge Kavanaugh yesterday because --
HARLOW: Yes --
KENNEDY: I wanted to hear it directly from him, from him and --
HARLOW: And what did he say to you, just a point of fact as we wrap up here because --
KENNEDY: Oh, he was --
HARLOW: Orrin Hatch told Cnn, Senator Orrin Hatch that he said to -- that Kavanaugh said to Orrin Hatch, he wasn't at the party and that, quote, "somebody is mixed up". Did he say the same thing to you, senator?
KENNEDY: He didn't use the words "mixed up", he was -- I would describe Judge Kavanaugh as resolute, determined, unequivocal. I mean, he didn't hatch, he said it's just not true. He wasn't angry, and he didn't say anything bad about Dr. Ford, he wasn't critical, I mean, just look, man, it's just -- it's just not true.
And I'm -- I think that's what he's going to say when we have the hearing Monday. And --
SCIUTTO: Well, listen --
KENNEDY: Don't give up on the hearing, don't give up on the hearing. I think there's -- well, I'm not going to repeat myself.
SCIUTTO: No, I hear, let's keep up the conversation because events are changing --
KENNEDY: That's good --
SCIUTTO: We'll bring you back on if we have a new development because we'd love to get your views as it develops --
HARLOW: Thank you for all the time --
SCIUTTO: It's a difficult topic, thank you for taking the hard --
KENNEDY: OK --
SCIUTTO: Hard questions, Senator Kennedy --
HARLOW: Thank you --
KENNEDY: Thank you for having me.
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