CNN "The Lead With Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island
Interview
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TAPPER: We have some breaking news on Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh. We're getting new negotiating terms from the attorney for Professor Christine Blasey Ford. That's the woman accusing rather Kavanaugh of sexual assault. Her lawyer says that she is, Professor Ford, willing to testify, but not on Monday and only if the terms are fair and her safety can be guaranteed. She still strongly prefers an investigation before her testimony.
The big question, of course, what happens if those conditions she's requesting are not met and, what happens if therefore she does not come forward?
Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse now joins me from his home state of Rhode Island. He's on the Senate Judiciary Committee. He's also a former federal prosecutor.
Senator, thanks for joining us.
Professor Ford's lawyer went on TV a few days ago. She demanded her client get to testify before the Senate to tell them about her allegations. Backed into a corner, Senate Republicans rescheduled the vote on Kavanaugh, which was supposed to be today. They arranged for a hearing where Professor Ford could tell her story, and now we're told she might not tell her story.
What's the plan if she does not come forward?
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE (D-RI), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Well, I think she's entitled to require the Senate to do whatever is very basic due diligence in any matter like this, and that's to do some modicum of investigation to look for either corroborating or exculpatory evidence.
In addition to being the U.S. attorney, I was also the attorney general in my state. I had a whole domestic violence unit. We did cases with victims who allege sexual assault all the time, and it's really, really important that you not just throw them into a hearing without having given them the courtesy of any investigation or corroboration effort at all.
[16:20:11] A prosecutor who did that in my office would have been fired and I think that's true in most offices around the country. So there's real, really bad practice going on in the Senate right now, and I think she and her lawyer are both very entitled to call that out and to maybe even decide not to come because it's a rigged proceeding in which basic modicum of sincere investigation has not been attempted.
TAPPER: OK. But you're talking about when you were attorney general and U.S. attorney, you're talking about bringing criminal charges against somebody. The statute of limitations --
WHITEHOUSE: Yes, but it doesn't matter. If this -- no, if this were a civil case --
TAPPER: Yes.
WHITEHOUSE: -- if that were a criminal case, the fact that it's a Senate hearing, none of that matters. This is about how you treat a witness. Somebody who claims that they have been assaulted and you do not throw them into any forum without having given them the courtesy of investigation to find corroborating or exculpatory evidence.
And it's particularly preposterous in this case when you have an FBI background investigation, this is part of this guy's background and they suddenly decided they are going to halt the background investigation. It makes no sense and it's appalling practice from a victim witness point of view.
TAPPER: OK. But the FBI has put her letter in their file and they have said that there's no federal crime for them to investigate. The White House, of course, as happened during the Clarence Thomas hearings --
WHITEHOUSE: Yes, but that doesn't matter.
TAPPER: -- the White House could tell the FBI we want you to look into this as you are calling for, as other Democrats on the Senate are calling for, but the White House has made it clear that's not going to happen, and I don't see any Republican senators joining --
WHITEHOUSE: That's wrong and they should be held accountable.
TAPPER: I don't see any Republican senators joining you and asking for that. What we've heard from people like Jeff Flake and Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski, the people who said they want to hear from Professor Ford, they said she needs to show up on Monday.
WHITEHOUSE: Look, any prosecutor worth their salt knows you don't just throw your witness or your victim up on to the stand. You do investigation first. The FBI knows that perfectly well.
If the FBI had a candidate for an FBI position who had a background check and at the last minute a new allegation like this was brought up, automatic pilot, the FBI goes back and completes the background investigation as to the new allegation, every single time. The fact that they are not doing it this time is a very bad practice, and it's a measure of how far they will go to try to stampede this nominee on to the court.
TAPPER: How far the FBI will go?
WHITEHOUSE: How far the Republicans will go, that they have should down the FBI investigation and aren't insisting that this victim get treated with the most basic respect?
TAPPER: What do you mean they have shut down the FBI investigation? The FBI has said that they did what they needed to. They put the letter in the folder. The FBI has given the statement.
WHITEHOUSE: No.
TAPPER: There's nothing for them to investigate. There's no federal crime.
WHITEHOUSE: Of course, there is. No, they're not doing a federal criminal investigation. They are doing a background investigation, and in a background investigation, you look into these allegations, and they are very clear things they should be doing.
They should be looking at an interview under oath with the other person allegedly in the room, trying to find who the kids were downstairs in the house, see if people can corroborate her story that the two boys did go upstairs with her. All of this is basic. This is investigative 101. There's nothing complicated about this except for the fact that they so badly want to ram Kavanaugh on to the court that they are not doing elementary --
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TAPPER: Here's where I don't follow what you're saying, Senator, because the FBI is saying that they have done what is standard procedure, that they have done it. Are you accusing the FBI of being politicized?
WHITEHOUSE: No.
TAPPER: Then how do you explain the fact that the FBI says, our job here is done, there's nothing else for us to do here?
WHITEHOUSE: They have not done what is standard procedure. That simply isn't true. There's no way that anybody who is getting a background investigation for a security clearance and this issue came up at the last minute that you wouldn't go back and say finish up your B.I. Look at this last fact and get it done.
Even John Yoo recognized that that's the case and recognized so publicly. So, you really can't say that an investigation that never took place, that interviewed witnesses, that never looked for corroboration, that never looked for evidence, was an investigation.
And they are doing a background investigation of this guy and it is in his background. That's a really lame excuse on their part, Jake. Really lame.
TAPPER: So, Senator, "The New York Times" is reporting lawyers for Kavanaugh's accuser, Professor Ford, said in an e-mail to the Senate panel that testimony on Monday is not possible. What do Democrats do if she does not show up? What happens then?
It seems pretty clear that Republicans say if she doesn't show up, we're going to have a vote on Kavanaugh perhaps as soon as Wednesday.
[16:25:00] WHITEHOUSE: Well, first of all, there's a factual dispute here which she said that young Kavanaugh molested and assaulted her, and he says that he didn't. There was a witness in the room who has never been subjected to a proper investigative effort of any kind. He has not been interviewed. He's never said anything under oath. There were supposedly other boys.
There's a whole investigative process that can and should take place, and you know what? This is such bad practice that even if they were to ram this guy through, as soon as Democrats get gavels, we're going to want to get to the bottom of this. You can't ignore a crime victim's claim that something happen, refuse to investigate, throw her up into the stand without the least bit of support for her, without the least bit of effort to corroborate what she says and then walk away from that as if you've behaved at all properly.
TAPPER: So, you just --
WHITEHOUSE: There isn't a prosecutor or a victim advocate in the country who would tolerate that.
TAPPER: We're out of time, but I want to make sure you understand what you just said. If the Democrats win back the House and/or the Senate, Democrats will investigate what happened, the charges that Professor Ford is laying out fine that means investigating a Supreme Court justice at the time?
WHITEHOUSE: I am confident of that, and I think we'll also be investigating why the FBI stood down its background investigation when this came up in this particular background.
TAPPER: Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, thank you so much.
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