CNN Larry King Live - Transcript

CNN Larry King Live - Transcript
Monday, October 3, 2005

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KING: Senator Hatch, are you personally, have you already made up your mind? Are you for her?

SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R), UTAH, SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Well, some of my fellow conservatives have a great deal of angst about Harriet Miers but I don't. I've had a lot of experience with her. I'm really quite impressed with her.

You know she broke through the glass ceiling for women way back in the '70s, rose to be managing partner of a firm that now has 400 attorneys. That's no small achievement and, of course, has worked extensively in this White House in very high level positions, now the White House counsel.

She's an exceptional person. I suspect that -- I suspect that my conservative friends are going to be very happy with her in the end and I really believe that my friends on the other side of the aisle are going to find a very strong, good woman who is a pioneer for women in not only the legal circles and law but also in the federal judiciary when the time comes.

KING: Senator Durbin, are you impressed that your own majority -- your own minority leader is staunchly for her, Senator Harry Reid?

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS, SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: I spoke to Harry today and he said and he told me as much last week that he had a very positive impression when it came to Harriet Miers.

But he also told me, and I think most Democrats feel, we have a responsibility here. This is a critically important vacancy on the court. It is the swing seat on the court, a court that has in the last ten years had over 130 decisions, 5-4.

This vacancy once filled could tip the balance one way or the other on critical issues of civil rights, human rights, workers' rights, the rights that we hold dear and look to the Supreme Court to protect. So, we have an obligation, not only to look at her fine resume, and it is a good resume, but also to ask questions about her values.

And, as I hear so many people assuring the right wing of the Republican Party, they need not be concerned about her political ideology that gives me some concern because I don't think we really want to put someone on the court who brings a strong political ideology to the job.

KING: David Gergen, I believe Senator Reid is pro-life. He is a Mormon and even though he's a liberal Democrat, he is pro-life, correct?

GERGEN: Yes. My sense, Larry, is that his -- his embrace of her comes from his exposure to her, just as with Senator Hatch. She has impressed a number of Senators on Capitol Hill with her character and they have enjoyed working with her. She has a strong, good, professional relationship with them over the Roberts nomination and over other issues.

But I think -- I do think two questions are still outstanding. She has never worked in the area of constitutional law. Does she know anything about it? You know, is she going to bring the kind of experience and understanding of the law to the highest court in the land?

And, secondly, what are her views? You know she's a stealth candidate right now. We're hearing from the right well she's one of us but when they enter into the hearings they'll say don't answer any questions.

And so, the country is going to come out of this, likely to come out if we have another hearing like we've had, you know, with the last two, both Democratic and Republican type hearings where people duck questions, we're going to have somebody nobody really knows we're just taking on faith. Do we really want a stealth candidate to determine what the future balance of the court is? I think that's going to be a hard question for the Senate.

KING: Jerry Clements, the prominent conservative Bill Kristol of "The Weekly Standard" said he is disappointed, depressed, demoralized and said her selection will unavoidably be judged as a combination of cronyism and capitulation on the part of the president. It doesn't look like he's going to back off from that.

CLEMENTS: Well, Larry, I disagree again with Mr. Kristol. I think Harriet has an outstanding record from her practice of law in the state of Texas and the work that she's done in the community, in the legal profession in Dallas and the state.

And I think that, again, when people learn more about her and the reason that she has been working with the president for all of these years and close to him, then I think the right will feel better about Harriet.

By the same token, I think that this is a person who will come to the Supreme Court with a belief that her personal views really are not as important or as critical to the decisions as the issues of the facts of every case, the law and the precedents that come to her and a detailed study and analysis of those facts and I think that's what's going to be controlling for Harriet Miers when she gets to the court. I think other...

KING: Noel -- Noel, do you expect her to be confirmed?

FRANCISCO: Absolutely. I think that once the Senators have a chance to review her stellar record, and I would take issue with any suggestion that she's not been involved in the important legal issues of the day.

She spent her entire career as a top-notch litigator in the state of Texas. She's now risen to the level of the head of the Texas State Bar, the head of a major law firm in Texas and, most importantly, the counsel to the president of the United States.

This is the attorney who day in and day out the president turns to on the most vital, legal issues of the day and Harriet has proven herself in every job she's ever had. I believe that once the Senators review this record and her entire career, they're going to find this is an extraordinary candidate.

KING: Senator Hatch, do you think it's going to be a tough hearing?

HATCH: Well, they're always tough hearings because I think it's the right and the obligation of Senators to, you know, to correctly ask as many questions as they can.

Now, I happen to really care a great deal for David Gergen. He's one of the best journalists and one of the best thinkers in the business. But I have to say, David, when somebody has been in the White House for five years, an associate White House counsel, has dealt with not only executive but the legislative branch of Congress on a myriad of constitutional issues, which she has done, the fact that she may not have been a jurist before is not irrelevant but it's certainly not as important as some people may think. And some of the greatest jurists and justices in the history of the court have been people who have never held a judicial position before.

KING: We're running close on time, David, do you want to respond?

GERGEN: Well, it's a mutual admiration society, as you know. I think the world of Orrin Hatch. I just believe, if you look at her record in the White House, she came in as a staff secretary. Her highest job in Texas was she ran the Texas Lottery Commission. Those are not ordinarily springboards to the Supreme Court.

KING: And, Senator Durbin, do you expect a tough fight?

DURBIN: Well, I just want to get back to the point of Orrin Hatch. If we are going to rely on her experience in the White House, I certainly hope the White House will produce documentation to show that she has really looked into these tough issues.

They didn't give us much to work with when it came to John Roberts and we have very little to work with in this nominee. We need evidence to make an informed judgment about a woman who is seeking a lifetime appointment to the highest court of the land.

KING: Do you expect to get that information, Senator Hatch?

HATCH: Look, look what he's asking for is the most confidential and privileged information that (INAUDIBLE).

KING: Yes, but how are you supposed to know what she thinks?

HATCH: Well, you have to ask her questions but you can't expect...

KING: What if she doesn't answer them?

HATCH: Well, I think she'll answer some questions. She's not going to answer questions that involve possible decision making that may come before the court in the future. She can't. That would be unethical on her part and, if you'll recall, even Justice Ginsberg and Justice Stephens said that Roberts followed what was called the Ginsberg rule during the Roberts hearings.

KING: Yes.

HATCH: And she's going to have to follow that as well. But the White House is not going to give up privileged information to us up here. They're going to have to ask the questions and hope she'll answer them.

KING: In other words, Senator Durbin, her White House experience counts but they're not going to tell you what the experience is.

HATCH: Sure they are.

DURBIN: So what do we have to work with? She's not been a judge.

KING: Well, wait.

DURBIN: She doesn't have to be a judge but the fact is now that her experience in the government, which we could turn to to find out what she really believes when she seeks this spot, we're being told we won't be able to see it and we know when it comes to John Roberts there were precious few questions that he would answer. How can you make an informed judgment on that basis?

KING: All right, we're going to deal with this a lot more in the months -- rather weeks ahead. It will take a while to get this through and we'll have both Senators Hatch and Durbin, in fact our whole panel will come back as well.

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