NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Richard Durbin
Interview
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CHUCK TODD:
That was -- wow. You even had wrapping up. I thank you. Kellyanne Conway, we'll leave it there. Thank you for coming on to share your views. I appreciate it. Joining me now from the other side of the aisle is Democratic Whip, Dick Durbin, who sits on the Judiciary Committee. Senator Durbin, welcome to Meet The Press.
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Good to be with you.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me start quickly on this issue of the op-ed and the president. What should Congress' role be -- if there is an unelected cabal of people thwarting the will of the people and trying to stop the president from doing things that he campaigned on doing, for instance in ending a trade agreement with South Korea? What is the role of the legislative branch in dealing with a troubling -- potentially troubling situation like that?
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Well, of course there's a formal role. Congress, under the Constitution has its own authority. But it is an authority that is exercised in the extreme: the 25th Amendment, the question of impeachment. But I think there's a more important role for Congress to play and especially the President's own party. This is a matter of great seriousness and gravity. We should not be dismissing it. It isn't like his blizzard of bizarre tweets. We are talking about consistent reporting over and over again about unpredictable, unprepared, unstable behavior by this president. In a matter of great national security and defense can we trust this president to make the proper decision, to make a thoughtful decision--
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
These are things that I think should be addressed by his own party. But instead we hear the silence of the lambs.
CHUCK TODD:
What--
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Basically quiet. Have nothing to say when it comes to these events, except for a few, Bob Corker's one of them, who's stepped up and said a few things.
CHUCK TODD:
What concerns you more, that there's an unelected cabal or the reports that come out from these anonymous sources. I mean, doesn't the President deserve to have a staff that doesn't, not just disparage him this way at times, but stops him from actually doing the job that he believes he was elected to do?
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Well, of course. But you have to ask yourself, "What kind of circumstances in the White House would even give rise to this possibility?" Under President Obama, eight years without an indictment, eight years without a major scandal. You know, they had their problems. Every presidency does. But nothing that went to the heart of the question about whether we have a dysfunctional White House. And if we do, it's inescapable that the President bears responsibility. He's the one who gathered this team. He's the one who tries to keep them together, and yet there is genuine fear, obviously, among some of them that his behavior is going to result in some terrible things for America.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me move to the Kavanaugh hearings. You're on the Judiciary Committee. You were there for all of it. Is it problematic to you that it's possible the hearings are going to be known more for the Democratic and Republican senators infighting than any of the questioning of Judge Kavanaugh?
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Well, I can tell you that Judge Kavanaugh, in an earlier life, used to school judicial nominees of what to say and not say before the Judiciary Committee, and it was pretty obvious in his performance there. I mean, there were practiced evasions and mind-numbing repetition of answers. He knew how to get through two or three days of questioning without--
CHUCK TODD:
Is that on him, Senator Durbin, or on Democratic senators not asking enough questions or not staying focused only on this issue of Roe, for instance?
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Well, I can tell you we were focused on Roe, we were focused on the Affordable Care Act and denying health insurance coverage to millions of Americans. We tried to go after the fundamental issue and the one I think is the most important at this moment in history and that is what this man, Brett Kavanaugh, would do on the Supreme Court if he's confronted with a question involving the White House, the Mueller investigation --
CHUCK TODD:
You believe that is more important --
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
We cannot ignore that. We shouldn't--
CHUCK TODD:
Senator, that's interesting. You believe that is more important than the Roe issue and the abortion issue?
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Well, I think they're all of importance. But the issue of the moment, clearly, is this situation with the Mueller investigation. And the important element that we shouldn't overlook is that Kavanaugh has been explicit, explicit in saying the president should not be subject to investigation or prosecution during his term in office. He even went further, in an amazing statement, saying this president could deem things unconstitutional even if the courts found otherwise. I mean, this is an amazing ceding of authority to the Executive Branch, which you don't expect to hear from someone aspiring to the Supreme Court.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you about something Former President Obama said about the rising energy on the left with progressives. He actually issued a bit of a warning to progressives, and I'm curious of your reaction to it. Here it is.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRESIDENT OBAMA:
There are well-meaning folks, passionate about social justice, who think things have gotten so bad we have to do the same things to the Republicans that they do to us, adopt their tactics.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
And I want to connect it to a story in Politico from Friday under the headline, "'Harris and Booker Borrow Trump's Tactics in Supreme Court Fracas.' Floating an incendiary charge with little to no factual basis can draw the spotlight and force the opposition to prove a negative. In the run-up to 2020, it isn't the details that resonate with base voters, it's the show." Fair critique?
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
I can tell you this. A recent book, How Democracies Die, talked about, you know, beyond the obvious, beyond the values of America, beyond the Constitution, there's mutual tolerance and forbearance that keep this democracy on track. And I think what the president has said and what I agree with, and I think my colleagues, including Senators Booker and Harris would agree with, is that we need to be more civil to one another. We need to obviously do our job, but at the end of the day, we need to have a focus on the fact that this country moves forward when we do it in a positive way, with mutual tolerance and forbearance. And I will tell you, we have not seen that from this president, from the beginning of his campaign through his presidency.
CHUCK TODD:
But the whole, "Fight fire with fire," you would tell your Democratic friends, you know, "Don't do that." I mean, look, Senator Harris on Wednesday night implied there was something nefarious about Brett Kavanaugh and the Mueller probe. And then the next day it was, like, "Nope. Nothing to see here."
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Well, I can tell you what she said. She had heard, what she felt-- from a credible source, that Brett Kavanaugh had had some contact with this law firm. She asked him. He said, "I don't know all the members of the law firm." He was caught rather flat-footed. By the next day he came in and categorically denied it, and she said, "That's the end of it." You know, that to me is a responsible way to ask the question and to accept the answer as delivered under oath. I think she did the right thing. What happens next though is that we need to get into the issues of the moment and try to find ourselves away from the personalities.
CHUCK TODD:
Senator Dick Durbin, Democrat from Illinois, thanks for coming on and sharing your views. Much appreciated, sir.
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Thanks, Chuck.
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