MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Jim Himes

Interview

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MADDOW: Pro-Trump House Republicans have been clamoring for it for awhile  now. They reportedly are about to get their wish. Axios.com is now  reporting that President Trump is about to order the declassification of a  batch of documents, quote, covering the U.S. government`s surveillance of  Trump campaign adviser Carter Page and the investigative activities of  senior Justice Department lawyer Bruce Ohr.

Carter Page is the Trump campaign adviser who came under FBI surveillance  for his repeated contacts with Russian operatives. He was surveilled under  FISA regulations that require the government to show that they believe the  target of the surveillance is an active foreign agent.

Bruce Ohr, on the other hand, is a Justice Department official whose work  has made him one of the top experts in the U.S. government on Russian  organized crime and its ties to the Kremlin, including one dramatic  instance in which Bruce Ohr reportedly met with a Russian oligarch named  Oleg Deripaska and tried to convince him to become a cooperator with U.S.  law enforcement against the Russian government.

The president has been sending angry tweets about Bruce Ohr for weeks now.  Last month, House Republicans summoned Ohr for closed door testimony. But  now, we`re told to expect the president to release classified information  from Bruce Ohr`s, quote, investigative activities.

Joining us now is Congressman Jim Himes who is a member of the House  Intelligence Committee.
Congressman, thank you very much for being with us.

REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT), HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Hi, Rachel.

MADDOW: What is your reaction to this reporting from "Axios" that the  president is going to declassify these materials? First of all, I should  mention that it`s just "Axios" reporting this. Other people aren`t  matching this reporting. I don`t know if that means that they`re just  ahead of the story or maybe they`ve caught on to something that isn`t going  to happen. Do you have expectations about this?

HIMES: Well, I`m certainly intrigued by it. I`m intrigued by it because  of course they`ve declassified other stuff that had no business being out  there in the public realm. You`ll remember the FISA affidavits that they  assured us were going to show this all got started because of the Steele  dossier. And the reason I`m intrigued by it, every time they have  declassified documents, it turns out that the truth, the actual documents  completely rebut their point.

When we, you know, got a look at the FISA affidavit, it turns out that lo  and behold, it was really all about George Papadopoulos who you were  talking about earlier, bragging about meeting Russians who were talking  about having e-mails. So, I`m intrigued by it because documents and the  truth are not the Republicans` friends on this issue. So I worry, quite  frankly, that if they do declassify, and when I say "they," it would be the  president, of course, it will be done selectively in a way that slants the  truth, because again, the truth is not their friend.

MADDOW: What do you make of the targeting of Bruce Ohr in particular?  Obviously, what Axios is reporting is that there are two sets of documents  coming out, one that relates to this surveillance application on Carter  Page. We`ve already had a bunch of that declassified already. But also, the investigative work of Bruce Ohr.
Given Bruce Ohr`s expertise and his past work in the Justice Department,  are you at all concerned? I certainly am intrigued myself as to why  they`re singling him out in way that I`m expecting to be designed to  destroy his career.

HIMES: Well, you know, a couple things. Number one, there is a reason why  police and public officials don`t typically talk about what`s happening  inside an investigation, because inside an investigation, you have law  enforcement people, policemen, FBI agents doing things like following  hunches and getting to dead ends.

And, you know, until you`re actually  ready to go to court, nothing`s ready so that`s why if you just sort of  start pell-mell releasing papers, you could create an impression that is  not true.

But I got to tell you, Rachel, this is infuriating, right? Bruce Ohr, by  all accounts, and by the way, at some point, I hope they release his  testimony, because I heard that his testimony last week actually completely  rebutted the notion that he was doing anything untoward. But Bruce Ohr is  just the latest guy whose career the president is intent on ending, this a  30-year professional, an expert on the Russian mob. A guy that we could  actually use having his career ended.

And I say that tonight, Rachel, with particular passion, because tomorrow  morning between 8:00 and 9:00, we are going to remember 17 years to the  minute of the attack on our country by terrorists on 9/11 and thousands of  lives lost. Why have we not had another event like 9/11 in this country?  I speak with some authority with six years on the intelligence committee  when I say the reason we have not had an attack like the one that struck us  17 years ago is because of Bruce Ohr and thousands and thousands of people  like him in DOJ and FBI and CIA and everywhere else, all of whom are fair  game for this president to spin his lies and ultimately harm those  organizations that have kept us more or less safe for 17 years.

MADDOW: Congressman Jim Himes of Connecticut, thank you for being with us  tonight, sir. Much appreciate your time.

HIMES: Thank you, Rachel.

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