CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Interview with Mazie Hirono (D-HI)
Interview
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BLITZER: Certainly. Shimon, thank you very much. Shimon Prokupecz, reporting.
Joining us now, Democratic Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii. She's a key member of both the Judiciary and Armed Services Committees.
Senator, thanks very much for coming in.
SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D), HAWAII: Thank you. BLITZER: Do you believe that the president is actually pushing out Don McGahn, out of the White House, as part of an overall effort to end the entire Mueller probe?
HIRONO: I know the president keeps trying to end the Mueller probe, but anything he does with regard to the Mueller probe can be deemed part of an obstruction effort on the president's part. So he should be very careful.
On the other hand, we know that Don McGahn had talked to special counsel's people for 30 hours. I'm sure the White House is very concerned as to what Don had to disclose. And now with his departure, as your previous person said, he could very well be brought before the Mueller people to ask what else?
So anything that the president discusses with Don McGahn now can be all part of whatever questions, further questions the Mueller people have.
BLITZER: Well, do you think those 30 hours of testimony that McGahn gave Mueller's probe will be key to the Mueller investigation?
HIRONO: I think it will be one of the important aspects of the Mueller investigation, which first and foremost, has got to continue without any interference from the White House or any other political interference.
BLITZER: As you know, you heard what the president said today. He said he's not worried about McGahn's testimony before Mueller and his team. But sources have told CNN -- and we've been reporting this for a while -- that news of McGahn's cooperation with Mueller, in the words of these sources, unnerved the president.
Should he be concerned about what the White House counsel revealed already and what he might still reveal?
HIRONO: I think he should be concerned. Not just by what Mueller -- by what McGahn knows, but yes, I just wanted to comment on what the president said that -- with regard to McGahn, they just follow the book. And I say it must be the president's book, which involves a lot of lying on the part of the president and his people.
[17:10:04] So it's not just what McGahn knows, but Steve [SIC] Cohen, Manafort --
BLITZER: Michael Cohen.
HIRONO: Yes, Michael Cohen, yes. There is a Steve Cohen, but Michael Cohen. And Manafort, all of these people. It's all of a piece.
BLITZER; Do you think that the president is going to pardon Paul Manafort, his campaign chairman, who was convicted on eight counts just in recent days?
HIRONO: I think that the fact that the president has continued to say very nice things about Manafort, and the fact that Manafort, given the option, opportunity to consolidate these two cases -- the next one is coming up soon -- and he didn't take it, leads me to think that he was hopeful that a pardon was coming forward. But I think that a pardon would also be part of an obstruction assessment of what -- of what the president is contemplating.
BLITZER: In his tweet this morning, the president said McGahn would be leaving after the Brett Kavanaugh confirmation before your committee, the Senate Judiciary Committee before he's confirmed as the next United States Supreme Court justice.
You're on that Judiciary Committee. The hearings are supposed to begin for Kavanaugh, what, next Tuesday, and they continue Wednesday and Thursday. They're going to go on for several days. How do you plan to address the Mueller probe in terms of your questioning of Kavanaugh? Because if he does become a sitting member of the U.S. Supreme Court, some of these issues go up to the Supreme Court. He could play a significant role.
HIRONO: I think it's in the context of what Judge Kavanaugh has said about the extent of executive privilege, executive powers and whether or not a sitting president can be subject to either criminal or civil proceedings.
So, yes, there is an aspect to it that is very concerning. I think this is one of the reasons that the president selected Kavanaugh over all of the other Federalist Society, Heritage Foundation picked of potential nominees, because Judge Kavanaugh is the only one who said, "Well, you know, the president should not have to respond to criminal or -- or civil proceedings while he or she is sitting."
So I think that has definitely been brought to this president's attention. And so I am not surprised that he picked Judge Kavanaugh.
All of these -- these issues have got to be brought out in his hearing. And I intend to -- to probe him on his positions regarding environmental protection laws. There are definite patterns to Judge Kavanaugh's dissents.
BLITZER: I'm sure there will be a lot of questioning. You were going to sit down and have a meeting with him last week , but at the last minute, you decided to cancel that. Has it still been canceled? Have you met with him yet?
HIRONO: Yes, it's canceled. And the reason remains. And it was after the Michael Cohen guilty pleas and Manafort's conviction on eight counts that I said, considering that the president picked Judge Kavanaugh, in my view, because of Judge Kavanaugh's position in terms of the president's powers and the limitations to any civil or criminal proceedings, I thought you know, the president does not deserve my sitting with his nominee.
But of course, I will be at the hearing, and I will ask Judge Kavanaugh all kinds of questions relating to this and so many areas.
BLITZER: But if he is confirmed by the U.S. Senate, even by a very narrow margin, if he is confirmed, he will be, in your eyes, a legitimate U.S. Supreme Court justice?
HIRONO: My being -- my saying that I would not meet with Kavanaugh has little to do with the so-called legitimacy. The president got to nominate, gets to nominate. He has not been impeached. He's still the president. So that was not the reason that I chose not meet with Judge Kavanaugh.
But you know what? The judge will have every opportunity under oath to put his best foot forward as to why he should be confirmed as a sitting Supreme Court justice and probably the fifth vote and many 5-4 decisions that will come down the pike that will impact people's health care, voting rights, individual rights. And certainly, a woman's right to choose will be on the line.
BLITZER: We'll have extensive live coverage of those confirmation hearings starting on Tuesday here on CNN.
I want to get your reaction to the Republican gubernatorial candidate in Florida, what he said. This is Ron DeSantis. He's a congressman from Florida. He just won last night in that election. He's being -- he's being challenged by the Democratic mayor of Tallahassee, Andrew Gillum, who is African-American.
Listen to what DeSantis said earlier today on FOX News.
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[17:15:04] BLITZER: Those words, "monkey this up," talking about an African-American challenger, the Democratic gubernatorial candidate. Some people say that's a racist dog whistle. What do you say?
HIRONO: I say that it was a conscious choice of words. And it's not just a dog whistle. It's a bullhorn.
BLITZER: So what do you -- what would you like Congressman DeSantis to do?
HIRONO: I think he should apologize for what he said. But I think, when people speak that way, they're really speaking their own -- you know, where they are coming from. And to the extent that this nominee is very close to Donald Trump, I would say that birds of a feather flock together.
BLITZER: Senator Hirono, thanks so much for coming in.
HIRONO: Thank you. Aloha.
BLITZER: Mazie Hirono of Hawaii. Up next, there's more breaking news. Now that White House counsel Don McGahn is leaving, will the president feel free to make a move against the Mueller investigation?
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