CNN "Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees" - Transcript: Interview with Senator Chris Coons of Delaware

Interview

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BERMAN: So, he's still an excellent guy. But is that all he is to the president? Or did he become something else, something more dangerous in the president's mind when news first broke that McGahn was cooperating with Mueller? Did he go from excellent guy, say, to certain member of the rodent species when the president mentioned in a tweet?

The failing "New York Times" wrote a fake piece today implying that because White House counsel Don McGahn has given hours of testimony to the special counsel, he must be a John Dean type rat. But I allowed him and others all to testify. I didn't have to. I have nothing to hide.

We'll ask John Dean about that than in a moment. But the point of the president's tweet, was it to dismiss the idea that he considers Don McGahn a rat or tipping a hand that he does? That is the question.

Perspective now from someone who as a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee has had extensive dealings with Don McGahn, Senator Chris Coons, Democrat of Delaware. We spoke just moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: So, Senator Coons, today, the chairman of your committee tweeting that he hoped the news of McGahn's departure wasn't true and urging the president not to let that happen. You also had the Majority Leader Mitch McConnell call the departure sad news for our country.

Were you surprised to hear them speak out on this when often they choose to stay silent?

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D), DELAWARE: Well, I was surprised by the news that Don McGahn, the White House counsel, is about to leave. He has worked tirelessly to advance one of president Trump's key objectives, which is to confirm conservative judges. And I did find in working with Don McGahn on judges for Delaware that it's possible to have a constructive working relationship with him.

But I've got my own questions or concerns about what it means that he is departing. My belief is that Don McGahn has been advising President Trump strongly against doing things that would be inappropriate like interfering in the Mueller investigation. And it's my hope that his successor will also take that same position given the ways in which President Trump continues to tweet against the Mueller investigation and to sort of harass and press Attorney General Sessions.

I'm concerned that one of the members of his legal team who I think has been pushing him to be responsible may be replaced by someone who doesn't.

BERMAN: Do you think it's a coincidence that this announcement comes just a week and a half after the White House was caught off guard by the revelation that McGahn spent some 30 hours being interviewed by Mueller's team?

COONS: You know, John, I don't know directly, of course, but it certainly did raise questions for me about whether that announcement created some real tension between the White House counsel and the president.

BERMAN: Any observation on the business organization inside the White House that Don McGahn was surprised to read about this on Twitter their morning?

[20:05:06] COONS: You know, the president has been unpredictable and unconventional since he started as a candidate, and he's certainly run the White House that way. There have been a number of surprising, striking, or even alarming recent tweets by the president. So, no, sadly, I'm not surprised that his own White House counsel, some of his own team members were surprised by that tweet.

BERMAN: So, you brought up the role that Don McGahn has played in the Mueller investigation, and also perhaps in the tenure -- the ongoing tenure of Jeff Session. So, let me asked the president has once again revived the idea of firing Sessions over the past month.

Sessions had been receiving plenty of protection from his Republican colleagues in the Senate. But that seems to be over, at least for. Lindsey Graham said yesterday the relationship between the president and Sessions is beyond repair. And that the president probably should replace him after the midterms.

Why the change? Why the change do you think? And without these Republican senators supporting Jeff Sessions, do you think that gives the president the political cover to fire him?

COONS: Well, just to be clear, other Republican senators said recently that this was a terrible idea, that the attorney general should not be dismissed. Attorney General Sessions, someone with whom I have many policy disagreements over issues from voting rights to immigration, is one of the earliest and strongest supporters of President Trump. He was the first senator to endorse him. They share many positions on a wide range of issues.

So, frankly, I was surprised by Senator Graham's statement. Senator Graham followed it up by another statement that he still insisted that President Trump not interfere in any way with the Mueller investigation.

My concern here, John, is given how closely Attorney General Sessions and President Trump align on so many issues, his pressing the attorney general to resign really I think is all about the president's desire to interfere in or end the Mueller investigation.

BERMAN: You brought up the fact that senator graham said he would insist whoever replaces Sessions promised to protect Robert Mueller. But do you believe that Republicans, when push comes to shove, when the next nominee comes up, will insist on that? How can they insist on that short of passing a law which I know you've been pushing for but isn't going anywhere?

COONS: Well, on your point that it's not going anywhere, back when we introduced it, Senator Tillis, Senator Graham, myself, Senator Booker, we introduced bills to protect the special counsel by making it harder for president to fire him by giving him a remedy to go to a three- judge panel and be reinstated if that was an improper firing, we were told we'd never get a hearing. Then we got a hearing. We were told we'd never get a markup. We were able to get a markup. We were told we'd never get it out of committee.

By a 14-7 bipartisan vote, including a vote from Chairman Grassley, our bill got out of committee and is now on the floor. And I'm convinced if Majority Leader McConnell would give us a vote, it would pass by a veto-proof majority. So I just -- I am more optimistic about the relevance and value of that bill perhaps than others.

BERMAN: Senator Chris Coons, thanks so much for being with us.

COONS: Thank you, John.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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