CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Interview With Maryland Senator Ben Cardin

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

BLITZER: right. We will see what happens on that front. Jessica, thank you very much.

Joining us now, Senator Mazie Hirono. She's a Democrat. She serves on the Judiciary and Armed Services Committees.

Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D), HAWAII: Thank you.

BLITZER: So, you know, President Trump, he's repeatedly claimed that there was no collusion. But now his lawyer Rudy Giuliani is arguing that collusion isn't even a crime necessarily. So what does that signal to you?

HIRONO: I think the noose is closing.

And Giuliani's like a loose cannon. And so is the president, frankly. So, conspiracy is a crime and obstruction of justice is a crime. And it all points to how important it is for the Mueller investigation to continue.

BLITZER: Donald Trump Jr.'s lawyer, you just heard, says there they are fully confident of the accuracy and the reliability of the information that has been provided by Donald Trump Jr. in the various investigations.

[18:10:03]

Based on what we have learned, do you think that reflects the information he provided to your committee during his Q&A session?

HIRONO: I know that, during his sessions with us, not just with our Judiciary Committee, but the entire Trump family, as far as I'm concerned, has not been forthcoming.

And so, at this point, everybody's credibility, in my view, is questionable. And, clearly, Giuliani's credibility is shot, even as he goes ahead and attacks Michael Cohen, who he said was a great guy not too long ago.

BLITZER: The chairman of your committee, the Senate Judiciary Committee, Chuck Grassley, says it's up to prosecutors now to determine if Donald Trump Jr. lied before your committee, and he won't call him back.

Are you satisfied with that?

HIRONO: Not particularly.

But, on the other hand, again, it points out how important it is for the Mueller investigation to continue, even as Trump and his minions and his enablers continue to go after Mueller in a very personal way. And they are just heightening their personal attacks on Mueller.

And this is why that investigation must continue.

BLITZER: Rudy Giuliani tells CNN -- and I'm quoting him now -- "The president didn't hack and he didn't pay for -- pay them for hacking."

That defense comes just days after CNN reported that Michael Cohen says the president signed off on the Russian meeting ahead of time, that meeting at Trump Tower, and knew about the offer of information on dirt on Hillary Clinton.

Do you think the Trump team is preparing for more revelations about what the president actually knew?

HIRONO: He must be. Otherwise, they wouldn't be so vehement and so, what I would say, acting like loose cannons. These are people who act as though they have got something to hide. And they're just scrambling. That's a good word. They're just scrambling to attack and try to obfuscate as much as possible as to what's really happening.

And so I repeat myself. I keep repeating myself in terms of how critical the Mueller investigation is, and why these -- these really personal and heightened attacks on Mueller just says to me that the Trump team is getting even more nervous than they have been.

BLITZER: Because, as you know now, the president and his lawyer, Giuliani, they're escalating dramatically their personal attacks on the special counsel, Robert Mueller. How concerning is that to you?

HIRONO: It's concerning, in that they continue to put out conflicting information.

And, frankly, to watch Rudy Giuliani these days, it's very painful, because there's a guy whose credibility is totally shot. He actually expects to continue to have people listen to whatever he has to say?

No. And he's just doing the bidding of President Trump. That's not serving the public at all. And the person who is getting to the bottom of this and in a way that can be verifiable and under oath is Robert Mueller.

BLITZER: The president, on a separate subject, he once again threatened a federal government shutdown over funding for his border wall and other immigration issues. Do you think he would actually follow through on that threat so close to the November midterm elections?

HIRONO: If there's one thing about President Trump, he continues to be very chaotic in his responses. And these kinds of utterances just come out of the -- practically out of the blue. He must be feeling a great deal of pressure.

He was given the opportunity to get the money for his wall when we had a bill in the Senate. This was about the fourth bill that was a bipartisan bill to protect the 800,000 dreamer participants. And he said no to that.

And suddenly, after months, he brings up the wall again. It must be because he feels under attack and he just lashes out. That is the one thing you can you can pretty much ascribe to the president, that when his back is against the wall, he attacks everybody who he thinks is coming after him, whether it's real or not.

BLITZER: Just to be specific, earlier in the day, he tweeted this, and let me quote from his tweet.

He said: "We must have border security, get rid of chain lottery, catch and release, sanctuary cities, go to merit-based immigration, protect ICE and law enforcement, and, of course, keep building, but much faster, the wall." When you look at that list, is there anything there that you and your colleagues in the Democratic Party are willing to work with the president on?

HIRONO: We worked with him in a bipartisan way to protect the dreamers, which included money for the wall. And so that's being very much in line with where he wanted to be.

But he himself doesn't know where he wants to be at any given moment. He just plays to his base all the time. These kind of chaotic responses and erratic responses do not serve our country. And, frankly, in all aspects, whether its foreign policy or domestic policy, the president is in a realm of chaos most of the time. He creates it himself.

[18:15:09]

BLITZER: On another issue, an important issue, he says he's willing to meet with the Iranian president, Hassan Rouhani, with no preconditions, any place, any time, a dramatic statement from the president.

What's your reaction to that?

HIRONO: I think it's yet another example of chaotic, this time foreign policy.

We still don't even know what his discussions were with Putin, and we're supposed to just say, that's great, this president, you can do whatever the heck you want.

That is now how things work. And when he withdrew from the Iran deal, he really created major issues of reliance from our own allies. And I think that we are in a situation in terms of foreign policy where our own allies can't really trust what the president says at any given moment.

This is yet another very dangerous thing for him to do. And I really think the president thinks that he can run this country the way he ran his companies, he can do and say whatever he wants, except in the case of the country, you know, when things go bad, you can't declare bankruptcy.

He takes very little responsibility for anything he says. He lashes out. So the chaoticness of his responses, reactions, utterances, it's unbelievable.

BLITZER: And let's not forget his own State Department recently came out with their global report on terrorism and cited Iran as the world's leading state sponsor of terrorism, but the president says he's willing to meet with President Rouhani anyplace, any time without any preconditions.

HIRONO: Yes, he has a very inflated view of his own powers to do anything.

In fact, what he does -- what he is really good at is creating chaos.

BLITZER: Senator Hirono, thanks so much for joining us.

HIRONO: Thank you.

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