MSNBC "The Beat with Ari Melber" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Adam Schiff

Interview

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MELBER: And joining me live is Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff, ranking  member of the House intelligence committee, which has been quite busy today  with Facebook`s revelation on new attacks with the midterm elections. Plus  we have a lot of other news in the Manafort trial.
Thanks for being with me tonight.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA), RANKING MEMBER, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE:  Good to be with you.

MELBER: For people who are following this news as it breaks, or may have  heard at the top of the show, where we had two very qualified experts  disagree on the level of intensity, what does this new revelation mean  about this attack on the midterms tonight?

SCHIFF: Well, I think we need to view this in combination of what we  learned a week ago from Microsoft. And that is that two of the vectors the  Russians used in the last election they appear to be using again. That is  and we saw this in both of the Mueller indictments, they are using social  media surreptitiously, to try divide Americans, to try to accentuate the  fault lines in our society.

But the are also hacking or attempting to hack political campaigns, we saw  Claire McCaskill is one of the targets of this. And that she was a target  the same week that Donald Trump was evidently saying publicly that she  needed to be defeated. That has an echo of July -- of the election year in  which Donald Trump said publicly, hey Russians, if you are listening, hack  Hillary Clinton`s emails. Because we learned that indicted that on that  date. In fact, they did try to hack the Clinton campaign.

MELBER: Congressman, respectfully, to push you on that, he would probably  be on record against the reelection of most any incumbent Democrat.

SCHIFF: Well, that`s certainly true. But it also looks like the Russians  may have been listening when he called for Claire McCaskill`s ouster.  Because the timing, again, is very suspicious. The timing of that  attempted hack of her campaign took place not months after he mentioned  Claire McCaskill. And it wasn`t like there was a tremendous volume of  campaigns that were the subject of attack. According to Microsoft, I think  there were only three, and that was one of them.

So the timing is certainly suspicious. But it looks like because they have  identified similar actors to the Russian hackers of the DNC, that the  Russians are using both of these modalities, hacking of campaigns,  surreptitious social media again to influence our elections.

MELBER: `I also want to get your report card here on what is a giant and  powerful corporation, Facebook. Because in ways that no one, I think,  would have predicted, many years ago, they have become a key platform and  utility, if you will, for how we do democracy and civic discussion in this  country. You and others have been critical in the past. I want to read  from how Mark Zuckerberg is assessing this tonight.
Security isn`t a problem that you ever completely solve, but we are  learning and improving quickly too. And we are vesting heavily to keep  people safe.

What grade to you give them, and how true does that statement feel to you  given how much more you know than most of us about the back room pressure  to get this company to act responsibly.

SCHIFF: Well, I think it`s a work in progress. But I`m pleased that they  came forward with this announcement today, even if they had to caveat it  and say that we can`t definitively say this was the Russian government, but  there are links to this troll farm in St. Petersburg, IRA. That`s what we  need them to do. We need this to be timely. They referred to events that  it appears, again, that these Russian trolls are trying to organize in the  United States and victimize real people and get real people involved in  protests or counter protests without knowing that they -- the impetus  originates in Russia.

MELBER: Right. To get the out in the real world. So what does it say to  you that there already the markings or the overlap at least of Russian  operations? What does that say to you about this attack we are learning  about tonight?

SCHIFF: Just what we would expect which is the Russians aren`t going to be  so blatant next time. They are not going to use the exact same IP  addresses that can be trace back to the very same Russian troll farm. They  are going to hide their hand. And Facebook clearly acknowledges that in  their statement today which means that Facebook is going to have to do  better sleuthing.

But also, as Facebook acknowledges, we need to make sure that our  intelligence community is cooperating and there are channels of  communications with the tech companies that is a free flow of information.  And I have to say I`m concerned that we learn from Microsoft about this  attempted hack of three campaigns. They undoubtedly would have informed  the FBI or the department of homeland security. I would have thought we  would have been notified in Congress about this. But none of that  happened. It didn`t go up through the food chain. There wasn`t the kind  of whole of government response there should be, and that alarms me as we  get closer to those midterms.

MELBER: Does that relate at all to leadership or lack thereof from the  Trump administration?

SCHIFF: Unquestionably. There are, I think, very good people at the mid- bureaucracy level who are trying their best at the department of homeland  of security, certainly throughout the intelligence community and at the top  of the intelligence community. But there`s no one at the top saying that  this is a priority of our administration.

MELBER: Right.

SCHIFF: You need to work with each other. You need to talk with each  other. I want periodic reports. Instead, we got the guy at the top saying  this is all a hoax and a witch hunt.

MELBER: Right. Which now tonight feels very real as undercutting  something that is actually relevant to how we choose, well, the body that  you are in, the Congress.

We have gone several minutes, congressman Schiff, without discussing Rudy  Giuliani. I would like to rectify that by showing the comments he made  that are both bizarre in how he did it, but relevant in the sense he`s the  lawyer for the President talking about a potential meeting that might add  culpability. Take a look.

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MELBER: Is this important in any way? And does your investigation look at  whether there were such meetings that could suggest greater culpability  about this potential collusion and conspiracy?

SCHIFF: Well, we certainly tried to look into this. But all too often the  majority on our committee was uninterested in getting the answers. So when  witnesses stone walled us and refused to answer, the Republicans were  unwilling to subpoena them or compel them. So we weren`t allowed to follow  the evidence where it was leading.

But here you have Giuliani saying, OK, there was a pre-meeting, and then he  quickly corrects himself, an alleged pre-meeting. He is all over the map.  But I think you can look at the statements he has been making, along with  the President`s confirmation of the new defense strategy, collusion is not  a crime, and you can see that plainly they feel there is evidence that the  President knew in advance that this is what they are worried about, that  evidence is going to come forward, that the President knew in advance of  the Trump tower meeting, so they are shifting to a -- OK, even if there was  collusion, even if the President was involved in collusion, it`s not a  crime. But, of course, the crime is conspiracy. So they are playing a  word game. But nonetheless, I think this kind of -- throw everything you  can at the wall strategy of Rudy Giuliani doesn`t really serve the  President`s interests very well. But it is telling.

You know, the only other point I would make on this is that I think that  they are clearly spooked by Michael Cohen. And they are making the leaks,  not Michael Cohen, it seems, at least as far as the sum of it is concerned.  And I have to imagine that they might have gotten this information if there  had been a joint defense of some kind with Michael Cohen and these other  counsel, that Michael Cohen has now opted out of because it seems to be  they are very specific about this pre-meeting that they are -- you know,  six members or eight members, and they have talked to four of the six or  six of the eight. They are using a great many particulars, and they  clearly, I think, want to try to get this out there, and minimize it before  Michael Cohen does. But I just don`t see that it`s going to be all that  effective a defense strategy.

MELBER: Well, that`s the weird part. Rudy Giuliani is insisting this  dinner never took place, but everyone had sushi.

Congressman Adam Schiff, thanks for being here.

SCHIFF: Thanks, Ari.

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