MSNBC "The Beat with Ari Melber" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Jerry Nadler

Interview

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MELBER: And congressman Jerrold Nadler taking a break from the hearing to  join us live tonight.
What are we hearing today? And is this hearing useful?

NADLER: Well, this hearing is just a big show by the Republicans to help the President as the walls close in, walls close in -- as the world of the investigation close in on him. And they are trying to use the text messages of the private political opinions of Mr. Strzok to try to discredit the integrity and the credibility of the investigation.

And they are asking him, and remember, he was removed from the  investigation very early on, as soon as Mueller learned about his text  messages, and he hasn`t been part of it. But they are insisting on asking  him as they did insist on asking deputy attorney general Rosenstein  questions they know he can`t answer, questions about an ongoing  investigation, an ongoing criminal investigation which the FBI lawyer  instructs him not to answer. And if he doesn`t answer, then they threaten  to hold him in contempt. And if he does answer, that will hurt the  integrity of the investigation, it may help give information directly to  the President`s defense team as Rudy Giuliani has already suggested.

But the point is the investigation, they are trying to use this to  discredit the investigation, to poison the jury pool, the American people,  against whatever the investigation comes up with. And the point of the  investigation is although the President is calling it a witch-hunt and  Republicans in Congress are doing everything to discredit it, no one is  defending it. Because all we really know about the investigation is that  there have been no leaks from it which is proper.

They haven`t been saying we are doing a good job because, or we know there  are the court filings. We know there have been 20 indictments, mostly of  people close to the President or his campaign. We know there have been I  think five guilty pleas by people close to the President or his campaign.  And we know there had been various court filings. And that`s all we know.  And all we should know.

But the President through his tweets and Republicans through trying to  throw mud against Mr. Page who is really a minor actor in this are trying  to discredit, to detract from what we know about the investigation which is  the indictments and to discredit whatever they may come up with when they  issue a report.

MELBER: Yes. I think you were referring to Mr. Strzok and Miss Page.

NADLER: Yes.

MELBER: When you talk about whether it is done properly or not, there`s  another dramatic moment, where your counterpart, you are the top Democrat  on this committee, the top Republican Chairman Goodlatte appeared to say  that the witness couldn`t discuss matters with the FBI counsel. Let me  play that for viewers.

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MELBER: I guess you were not recognized there. But for the sake of  transparency, you are recognized here, sir. What were you getting at and  what was the chairman trying to do?

NADLER: Well, it was rather pointless of the chairman because Mr. Strzok`s  counsel was sitting next to the FBI counsel, so she or he just leaned over  and one told the other and then his counsel told him.

But the point is that as an employee of the FBI, FBI policy, justice  department policy has been for many years. We have a letter to the  committee in 2000 from the then deputy attorney general saying we cannot  comment on active criminal investigations. At the end of the criminal  investigation then you can get materials, you can look into it, but you  cannot comment, Mr. Strzok cannot comment, nobody in the FBI can comment on  an active criminal investigation because it would undermine the  investigation. It might jeopardize secret FBI informants. It might give  potential defendants information which they shouldn`t have until later. It  might undermine the integrity of the investigation. Therefore, he was  instructed not to answer questions about the ongoing investigation.

And the Republicans tried to put him in position like deputy attorney  general Rosenstein two weeks ago, in the position of saying either you  violate long-standing policy and proper norms by talking about things you  shouldn`t talk about, namely the ongoing criminal investigation, or we`ll  hold you in contempt. And that`s highly improper. And again, it is all  designed to create an artificial fight about something that ultimately is  not important which is whether he was -- Mr. Page, Mr. Strzok, rather, was  biased or not, even though the inspector general found that any opinions or  biases he had were not reflected in any decisions made by the FBI or by the  justice department, and he was removed from the Mueller probe early on as  soon as Mueller found out about the texts.

But they are using this to try to take attention from the Mueller  investigation and discredit the Mueller investigation to throw a lot of mud  there so when the Mueller investigation comes out with whatever it does  come out with, if it is not favorable to the President, they will have a  lot of people, they will have poisoned the jury pool.

As Rudy Giuliani said, ultimately this could come to a judgment by the  American people, should we impeach the President or not, et cetera, and  they want to discredit what reports may come out when they don`t know what  it will be, when nobody knows what it will be yet.

MELBER: As for Mr. Strzok, I mean, is your position basically that what he  said was stupid, but he didn`t do anything wrong or what he said was fine?  Because the thought experiment that Republicans are asking Americans to  consider tonight is if an official said these things about Barack Obama or  pick your favorite President, it might upset a lot of people around the country, regardless. Go ahead.

NADLER: I asked Mr. Strzok. I said you have been in the FBI 22 years.  You know a lot of people. Were there other FBI agents with a low opinion  of Donald Trump? Yes.

Were there other FBI agents with a terrible opinion of Hillary Clinton and  hoped Trump would win the election? Yes, he said.

Did any of this on your part or on their part effects decisions for the  investigation? No.

And the inspector general found that none of these things effected  decisions made by the investigation. And Mr. Strzok was not in position to  make such decisions on his own in any event. He was one of a number of  people. And frankly people are entitled, even federal employees, even FBI  agents are entitled to their private opinions. They are entitled to tell  their lovers their private opinions as long as they don`t let it effect any  decisions made by the FBI. And there`s no evidence whatsoever that any  opinion or bias by Mr. Strzok or anybody holding the other opinion effected  any of the decisions made. In any event, none of this is relevant to the  ongoing investigation because he was removed from the investigation at the  beginning.

MELBER: I want to play a question you posed that cuts to the heart of  this, and is easy to forget why we are in such a unique period right now  and his answer from earlier today for viewers who may have been at work or  not seen it. Here it is.

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MELBER: What are you getting at there as the larger stakes apart from the  individual witness?

NADLER: Well, the larger stake is that we know, all our intelligence  agencies tell us, the bipartisan Senate intelligence committee said the  same thing last week, that the Russian government attempted to interfere  with our election to help Mr. Trump`s election and to hurt Hillary  Clinton`s election. This we know.

We are also told by our intelligence agencies that they are attempting and  will continue to attempt to affect our the 2018 elections. And we also  know from testimony before the Senate that when the director of national  intelligence was asked have you gotten instructions from the administration  to do anything to help protect the integrity of midterm elections from  Russian intention to interfere, the answer was no.

And certainly what Mr. Strzok was saying, and it is obviously correct, is  that when a hostile foreign power is trying to interfere with the integrity  of the very way we govern ourselves, with the integrity of our elections,  that`s a high priority, ought to be a high priority to deal with.

MELBER: Congressman Nadler, I appreciate you taking time out of the room. I know that there are many members in there and this has been many hours and we are, well, I will close by asking. I`m told it could go as late as 9:00 p.m. eastern tonight? What do you know?

NADLER: Could be, depending how many stay top ask their five minutes of  questions.

MELBER: Understood. So we appreciate you making some time on THE BEAT to  explain your perspective. Congressman Jerrold Nadler.

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