MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Amy Klobuchar

Interview

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MATTHEWS: I think really Rudy and Brett have the same speechwriter.

For more, I`m joined by Minnesota Senator, Democratic Senator Amy  Klobuchar, a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which will hold the  confirmation hearings on Kavanaugh.

What do you make of that synchronized swimming in their thought between  Rudy Giuliani, the president`s outside attorney and fixer, and the guy he  just nominated for the Supreme Court? They both say presidents should be  left alone by prosecutors.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D), MINNESOTA: Well, I had not known about that close  connection there.

MATTHEWS: It was a Minnesota Law Review statement.

KLOBUCHAR: It was.

No, I have seen the rMD-BO_law review article.

MATTHEWS: From your own beloved state.

KLOBUCHAR: No, no, believe me, but I`m telling -- between Giuliani and  what this judge has said.
And when you look at that law review and others he`s written, including one  in the Georgetown Law Review, he`s talking about a very expansive view of  executive power. He has literally said in an actual case, in a dissent, in  2011 that a president should be able to not enforce a law that he thinks is  unconstitutional on his own.

MATTHEWS: Right.

So if he shot somebody on Fifth Avenue, as he`s put it out as a point of  reference, then even in that case he shouldn`t be investigated, according  to Judge Brett Kavanaugh.

KLOBUCHAR: But even more close to home, the prohibition in place right now  that says insurance companies can`t kick people off if they have a medical  history, if they have a preexisting condition.
So I guess, under his interpretation, the president could just decide not  to enforce that law. Then you go to the next step, which is what your  focused on. And that is that when you look at these law review articles,  he makes very clear -- these are his words in the Georgetown one -- that a  president -- quote -- "should have absolute discretion about whether and  when" -- end quote -- he can be independently investigated.

MATTHEWS: Well, here we go to near case, not six months now, but a couple  -- a couple months from now.
The Supreme Court, as reconstituted, with this new member, perhaps, this  new associate justice, will be asked whether a president has to respond to  a subpoena. We think we know the answer to this by this associate justice,  who could be the fifth vote to say, no, he doesn`t have to.

KLOBUCHAR: Yes. And it goes even farther.

He has actually said that a president should be able to fire the special  counsel. And he suggested that this would be a good idea in the same law  review article. Think about that.

MATTHEWS: Is he trolling you guys? You know the new term trolling. He`s  just trying to get you crazy by sticking to that, and you say, I`m going to  pick a person who is openly saying I`m going to get you off.
KLOBUCHAR: Well, this is the exact opposite.

Even the Senate Judiciary Committee, with Republican votes, as you know, passed a bill through the committee -- it hasn`t gotten voted on, on the floor -- that actually strengthened the special counsel provision, Chris, because we`re so afraid that they`re going to run all over that.

And Rod Rosenstein is hanging in there. You know that the special counsel,  Mueller, has gotten 20 indictments -- 20 people indicted, five convictions  so far. This is a major investigation of a foreign power trying to invade  our election.

That`s what happened.

MATTHEWS: Well, my late colleague and great colleague Tim Russert used to  say in many cases like this, numbers, numbers, numbers.

OK, numbers, not just ratings, numbers. You guys in the Senate have 100  members. John McCain is not able to attend probably a vote. That`s 99  nine members. You have got 49. They have got 50. Two of those 50 they  have are women who are pro-choice.

Are they going to be the ones that are the weak timber? They`re the ones  that are going to say, no, this is too far to go with this pro-choice --  pro-life candidate?

KLOBUCHAR: We have two jobs right now.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: You`re not going to answer my question. OK.

KLOBUCHAR: No, I am going to answer it.

We have two jobs. One is to get all the information out there. This guy  was in the White House for years. Some of that information has not come  out. It was under seal before in his first confirmation hearing. So we  need to get all that information.

In Elena Kagan`s hearing, 171,000 documents were produced. So we need to  look at that. And then we need to ask the tough questions, including where  he is on precedent that is 45 years old. We should get that answer.

Then the second piece about this is to make the case…

MATTHEWS: Didn`t he say he was for Casey? He was for the undue burden standard?

KLOBUCHAR: He said -- he was asked, and he deferred to precedent.

But he said, well, that`s the Supreme Court`s precedent. Now he would be  in a new job, where he would be making the precedent. So, it`s a much  different question.

MATTHEWS: So, you don`t take his word as final on that, then?

KLOBUCHAR: No, because he -- it was answered in the context of following Supreme Court precedent.
Then, the second thing will be to make the case to the American people.  And the case to the American people is that this is about a case down in  Texas where the administration is arguing that they want to kick you off  your insurance and make it unconstitutional, the provision that says you  can`t be kicked off insurance. We need to make that case.

And those Republican senators, not just the two women who have shown  courage in the past and stood up to protect the Affordable Care Act…

MATTHEWS: Yes, build them up. Build them up. Build them up.

I know what you`re doing.

KLOBUCHAR: They did. They did. They showed that courage.

MATTHEWS: What about the three Democratic senators from red states? Should they vote for this nomination and save their seats? KLOBUCHAR: They`re going to do what`s right And they`re going to talk to 
this nominee.

And they have an open mind. And that`s what they should do.

MATTHEWS: OK. It seems like five senators are going to decide this thing.Thank you, Senator Klobuchar of Minnesota, a former district attorney.

KLOBUCHAR: Thank you.

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