MSNBC "All in with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Mazie Hirono
Interview
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HAYES: That was an HHS official testifying before the senate today, asked by Senator Blumenthal, hey, did anyone there inside HHS say don`t separate children from their families, don`t rip them apart? And what you just saw, and I`ll read this answer again, "during the deliberative process over the previous year we raised concerns in the ORR (ph) program, that`s a part of HHS, about any position policy which results in family separation due to concerns we had about the best interests of the child." In other words, absolutely we raise concerns, absolutely we warn them not to do it, absolutely it would be terrible for these children. And you know what the Trump administration did? They went ahead and they did it anyway.
Democratic Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii is one of the senators in today`s hearing. Am I misreading that answer, senator? Or was that how you heard it?
SEN. MAZIE HIRONO, (D) HAWAII: No, you are not. That is how we heard it. But the thing is that the Trump administration did not listen to the people and went ahead and instituted this very inhumane, cruel policy.
HAYES: What did you learn today at the hearing more broadly? HIRONO: Very clearly that when theHomeland Security people instituted it, or when the zero tolerance policy was instituted and all these parents are going to be criminally prosecuted, they have to separate the children from the parents and they had absolutely no plan or intention of ever having to reunify these 3,000 or so children with their parents.
In fact, what they did with these children was made them instant orphans and sent them Health and Human Services jurisdiction and pretty much, Homeland Security washed their hands of it.but for this judge in San Diego who said you will reunite these children.
And you know what the person who testified from Health and Human Services said when these children are now deemed unaccompanied children, they were not set up there to reunify these children with their parents. They are there to find sponsors for them. They`re to do other things, so chaos ensued.
HAYES: I want to stop you there, because this is important and there`s a lot of jargon here, but I think this is a crucial point, what you`re saying and what that HHS official testified to you today, in your hearing, was that when they were taken from their parents, they were turned into what is called unaccompanied minors. They were not -- the shelters that got them, got them as if they had come alone, not with their parents. And those shelters have procedures to place those children with other people, sometimes other families or foster care, or adoption.
HIRONO: Yes. Exactly. And that is why the person from Health and Human Services said they were not set up to reunify these children with parents.
And the thing is, he said that the thing that was wrong was the separation of these children from their parents because they became basically orphans thanks to this zero tolerance policy.
HAYES: I -- there`s something about this story that fills me with a kind of Old Testament wrath. Who is going to be held -- I feel like I want a definitive accounting of how this happened, what the internal deliberations
were, who said what to whom, who raised what red flags. Is there any plan to get some kind of definitive after action report about what happened here?
HIRONO: We can get to some of those specifics but basically, the president takes responsibility for this. It is his zero tolerance policy that resulted -- and as articulated by the attorney general, that all of a sudden now we`re going to start prosecuting thousands of parents as criminals, so this didn`t have to happen. And as I said, but for this judge in San Diego, who was by the way, appointed by a Republican president. If this judge did not say to the administration, you will reunite these children, they still wouldn`t be doing it. In fact, Homeland Security would have just washed their hands and all these 3,000 or so children would have been the responsibility of the Health and Human Services people.
HAYES: I guess -- my feeling is -- I know that you`re in the minority, but I guess what I`m trying to say is that`s not good enough. I mean, your colleagues in the House of Representatives and the House majority are chasing the Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein to the gates of hell to turn over documents, to turn over underlying warrants that have never been turned over in the history of the modern FISA court, and I just feel like this congress needs to hold some accountability over what this administration has done and that the aftereffects it has caused to these children.
HIRONO: I share your outrage. But there is no way that the House, which is filled people who are just enabling the president to do all kinds of chaotic and cruel things, don`t look to them. I`m looking to possibly the senate. At least we had a hearing with these people who came to testify because three weeks ago, Chairman Grassley was only going to have the person from ICC come testify, and it`s the rest of us who say, wait a minute, you have to have Department of Justice, you have to have the Homeland Security people, you have to have the Health and Human Services people, they all have to testify.
And what was really clear was there was never any intention to reunify these kids. And you know what, the person from Homeland Security said these family detention centers are like summer camps. So when I asked two of the five testifiers who had some experience, including the guy from ICE experience with these family centers, would you send your kid to these so- called summer camps, I just got a lot of hemming and hawwing, did not get a straight answer.
So we have an administration that still hasn`t reunified some 700
HAYES: Yeah, 700. Senator Mazie Hirono, we`re going to keep on that story. Thank you for joining me.That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts now.
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