MSNBC "All in with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Angus King
Interview
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HAYES: This is -- I think we will be learning more about how extensive all of this is as we go forward.
Anna Schecter, thank you so much.
Joining me now, Senator Angus King of Maine, a member of the Senate intelligence committee which is holding a hearing tomorrow on efforts to spread political discord on social media.
And senator, what do you think about the fact that it appears the exact same playbook is being operationalized this year as 2016?
SEN. ANGUS KING, (I) MAINE: Chris, this is a big deal. Number one, as you`ve already pointed out, they are back at it. They`re doing it again. Number two, buried in the story today, it appears they are doing it in a more sophisticated way. They`re not paying with rubles, for example. And they`re disguising where some of this is coming from through VPNs around the world.
And number three, what they are really doing underneath all of this is taking aim at our system itself. The combination of the First Amendment and democratically elected governments is exactly what they are focusing on. I call it geopolitical Jiujitsu, remembe, where you use your opponent`s strength against them. And that is what they are doing here.
And this is -- this could turn out to be the biggest story of this whole matter as it plays out over the next couple of months.
HAYES: Well, what do you say to someone who says, look, I`ve looked at some of these Facebook pages. They look kind of lame. I`m not not convinced that a bunch of people posting on Facebook or on Twitter bots is really have a huge effect.
KING: Well, I think one of the things -- and you mentioned we are going to have a hearing on this tomorrow before the Senate intelligence committee, followed up, I hope, by another hearing a month or so from now, with the officials from these companies. Tomorrow are going to be experts on exactly what is going on.
But we think we are only seeing the tip of an iceberg, frankly. There is a lot more going on that is being used to manipulate us. And what they are doing is simply trying to sow discord and distrust. They are trying to divide American society. And frankly, they`re doing a pretty good job of it. And they`re going to continue to do it until we get real about some kind of response, so we can talk about that.
HAYES: Well, that`s my next question for you, has there been sufficient response from the Trump administration?
KING: The short answer is no. Although, I have to amend that by just this morning Secretary Nielsen in New York started making the right kind of noises, talking about a more structured response from within the administration. The problem is it`s been -- the response has been spread across a lot of different departments. Nobody was really in charge, nobody was accountable. They did set up a new office today, that may help.
But the other thing that she mentioned, just obliquely, but is absolutely critical, we have got to convince the Russians or the Chinese, or the North Koreans or whoever is proposing to do something like this, that they are going to pay a price. They haven`t paid any price. We are a cheap date, Chris. We`re -- they knocked the hell out of our democratic process in 2016, and, you know, there were some sactions imposed, but nothing really, as one of our witnesses said, nothing that would change their calculus.
We have to have a deterrent policy that they understand that if they do this, there is going to be hell to pay. And so far, that hasn`t been forthcoming from this administration. I also have to say, the prior administration I dont think was adequate in developing a cyber deterrent strategy.
HAYES: Let me ask you a final question, and it has to do with a database that some Clemson professors have kept of Russian Twitter trolls with AN index of their activity through the 2016 campaign. FiveThirtyEight made a visualization of it. And you see there`s -- right there in the center of that chart -- I don`t know if you can see it -- there is one line that is higher than any other line, it is the single most active day for Russian Twitter trolls and bots, and it is October 6, 2016, which is the day before WikiLeaks publishes the first traunch of emails of John Podesta. Does that strike you as remarkable?
KING: Oh, I think it is a mere coincidence -- no, of course it is remarkable. This wasn`t some kind of random attack, Chris, this was very sophisticated. And one of the problems is they`re getting even more sophisticated. And we are still sort of trying to figure out how to respond in November of 2016. We have have got to learn how to respond now and they know what they are doing and their weaponizing information and using it against us.
This is very dangerous for our democracy and we have to get our act together to be able to fend it off.
HAYES: All right, Senator Angus King, thanks for making time.
KING: Thank you.
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