CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Interview With South Dakota Senator John Thune

Interview

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BLITZER: Dana, good work. Dana Bash reporting for us.

Let's get more on all of this.

Republican Senator John Thune of South Dakota is joining us. He's the chairman of the Senate Republican Conference.

Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R), SOUTH DAKOTA: Good evening, Wolf.

BLITZER: Let's go through some of these issues.

The president has relentlessly attacked NATO in the lead-up to this trip, to this summit in Brussels. He seems to be much more comfortable actually with the upcoming summit in Helsinki with Vladimir Putin.

Is the president putting the very survival of NATO right now in jeopardy?

[18:10:01]

THUNE: Well, I wouldn't say that.

But I think it is important that we demonstrate a strong commitment to the NATO . I mean, this is something that has served freedom-loving countries well for half-a-century.

And I know we just had a vote on the floor of the United States Senate, a motion to instruct conferees on the defense authorization bill, basically expressing our commitment to NATO and Article V of NATO. Obviously, the president is interested in seeing NATO nations carry

more of the burden for their defense. And that's something that we all agree with. But I think in terms of the commitment that we have to the transatlantic alliance, it's strong coming from the Congress. And I hope that the president articulates that when he meets with them as well.

BLITZER: Well, he certainly hasn't articulated that in the lead-up. Let's see what he does in Brussels.

THUNE: Right.

BLITZER: He does say that Vladimir Putin -- and you heard him this morning just before leaving the White House -- he says that Putin is a competitor of the United States. He refused to say Putin is a foe of the United States.

How do you see it? Is Vladimir Putin a foe?

THUNE: Well, I think that, obviously, when it comes -- Russia and the United States are both nuclear nations. We have 80 percent of the world's nuclear stockpiles.

And so we have to have, I think, an understanding of our differences. And I think that's one thing that perhaps is a little bit lacking. I don't know that I would characterize them -- I certainly wouldn't characterize them as a friend.

But I do think that, and they are potentially an adversary, but I hope that there is a way that we can structure a responsible relationship going forward where they change their behavior relative to some things that are important for our country, first and foremost our elections.

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BLITZER: Let me press you.

According to the U.S. intelligence community, they're actively gearing up once again to interfere in the midterm elections. They interfered in the presidential elections.

Wouldn't you describe that as someone who is a foe of the United States?

THUNE: Well, certainly someone that is undermining American interests when it comes to our elections. And we have made it very clear that they have got to stop that behavior.

And I think that was what these sanctions last year were all about. We have sanctions going back to 2014 with our European allies dealing with Ukraine and Crimea. But the Russians have to understand, Wolf, in my view at least, that they have got to change their behavior if they want to have a more responsible relationship with the United States and with our allies.

But one of the reasons I think it's so important that, as the president meets with our NATO allies, that he comes out of that meeting with a united front, is because I think it makes us that much stronger when we have a coordinated strategy in dealing with a country like Russia.

BLITZER: I want to move on.

But, quickly, Senator, why are you afraid to describe Putin as a foe?

THUNE: Well, I mean, I think that they are -- like I said, friend, foe, certainly not a friend.

But I think that we get along on some issues. We do some things together on counterterrorism. We work together on the space program. And so there are some areas where we cooperate.

But I would characterize the relationship between our two countries right now as strained, at best, and probably at a low point relative to any time since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

So -- but I think it's important that we do our best, realizing that they are a nuclear-capable nation, to have a responsible relationship moving forward. And that means we have got to have a clear-eyed understanding of what our differences are. And they are pretty profound.

BLITZER: You just returned from a visit to Russia with a group of Republican lawmakers.

Why did the Republicans decide to send a strictly Republican delegation to visit this key U.S. adversary? We're showing the eight members of the delegation on the trip. Why no Democrats?

THUNE: Well, first off, I think that one thing is, these trips -- I have been on trips that have been Republican and Democrat, some all Republican.

But I think it was really important at this particular time, Wolf, for Republicans to express very clearly, which we did in no uncertain terms, to the Russian leadership that election meddling is not a Democrat issue. It's not something that just Democrats in this country care about.

It is something that Republicans care about. And I think Republicans delivering that message and a very tough message in advance of a visit by the president with the Russian president was a very fitting theme. And I think right now the timing of it could not have been more important.

BLITZER: As you know, one of your colleagues, Republican Senator Ron Johnson, he was on the trip with you. He said that the U.S. sanctions against Russia aren't working. And he also seemed to downplay Russian election interference here in the United States.

That's a sharp departure from what we heard from other Republicans, who say that you guys aggressively confronted the Russians for their meddling in the election. Just update our viewers. What really went on inside those meetings?

THUNE: Well, they -- they were.

It was very confrontational with respect to election meddling. And all the members of the delegation expressed that. There was a hard pushback. The Russians are very defensive on that issue. They're obviously not going to agree with us.

And -- but, as I suggested to them, the best way to demonstrate good faith on this issue is to not mess in our 2018 elections. If they want a different relationship with the United States, it starts with a change in behavior.

[18:15:08]

And we delivered that message very clearly. So, I think in terms of the Russians understanding of what that we're serious about this, the congressional delegation that was over there delivered that message in very clear and frank language.

And it obviously met with a lot of resistance from the Russian leadership that we met with. But I think they understand what the stakes are and that we mean business.

BLITZER: As you know, the Russian media clearly seized on your delegation's visit tried to Russia.

Do you worry that you and the other Republicans on the trip were used for Russia propaganda purposes?

THUNE: I don't think that's true at all.

I do think it's important. And our ambassador there, Jon Huntsman, was -- has been trying to get members of Congress to come over -- come over to enter into direct discussions. I mean, there's no way to deliver a tough message, better way to deliver a tough message than to deliver it in person.

And I think, as members of Congress, the Article I branch of the government, the Russians need to know that we take very seriously their interference in our election. We believe they did it. We have evidence that they did it. And we delivered that message clearly.

We talked about Syria and Ukraine and nuclear weapons and a whole range of issues, but probably most the time, a lot of the time, I would say, of the many hours that we spent in discussions with their Duma, with their Council Federation, with Foreign Minister Lavrov dealt with the issue of Russian interference in the American elections.

BLITZER: I don't know if you know this, but Russian TV, the Russians were mocking you for carrying a burner phone. They claimed on Russian TV they could easily hack into it.

What's your reaction to that?

THUNE: Well, I mean, yes -- they -- at the request of the embassy, I did an interview with a Russian media outlet.

And a question was posed about why we carry burner phones when we travel to Russia. And I -- they said, why can't we cooperate better on cyber issues? And I said, well, we can cooperate better when you quit messing in our elections.

But, obviously, when we travel there, we know that the Russians are constantly trying to hack into our telecommunications equipment, not only there, but here, everywhere in the United States as well. This is a cyber-conflict that we're involved with and, obviously, one we take very seriously travel abroad.

But they want to write it off as U.S. paranoia about Russia. They suggest that nobody else that comes to Russia does this. But the fact of matter is, we know full well that they are constantly surveilling and trying to gather information about our activities.

And we take that very seriously and take appropriate precautions when we travel.

BLITZER: Senator Thune, thanks so much for joining us.

THUNE: Thanks. Thanks, Wolf. Good to be with you.

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