MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Interview with Cory Booker
Interview
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
MADDOW: Senator Cory Booker of the great state of New Jersey joins us tonight for the interview.
Senator, thank you for being here tonight. Good to see you.
BOOKER: Good to see you as well.
MADDOW: So I saw you make the argument there in the Senate with your colleagues. I should mention that at the earlier part of your remarks when you said that the president is part of this ongoing investigation, Senator Cornyn of Texas interjected and said he`s not sure that the president is a subject of the investigation, which I thought itself was a telling moment.
Tell me about why you`re making this case and how you intend to press it.
BOOKER: Well, we`ve already seen some bipartisan work trying to avoid a constitutional crisis. Lindsey Graham and myself put forward a bill to protect the special counsel. We know that with this whole investigation of which the president is a subject of we`ve seen, what have we seen so far? Seventy-three charges amongst 26 people and companies, five guilty pleas, one person sentenced.
So, this is all people around this president. So this is ongoing. We`ve got to avoid a constitutional crisis. What is that? Questions going before the Supreme Court, you covered some of them already.
Can a president be criminally indicted? Can a president pardon himself? Can a president stop an ongoing investigation? Can a president fire a special prosecutor?
A lot of questions now could go before the Supreme Court for a man who on a number of occasions we know what he did with the FBI Director Comey, who clearly talked to him about loyalty. We know that he said publicly he would not have hired Jeff Sessions if he knew he would have recused himself which clearly if you`re not loyal to me I wouldn`t have even hired you.
So, here the president is going to hire a Supreme Court justice and put them before the Senate. It`s very understandable that with the pattern of behavior that he`s going look for somebody with that litmus test or a loyalty test. Should that person then be the balance of the Supreme Court, that that person is going to decide in the favor of the person that gave him the job?
MADDOW: Now, are you saying the president shouldn`t be appointing any judges? What`s the difference between a Supreme Court justice nomination and a circuit court nominee or a district court nominee?
BOOKER: Because the Supreme Court is the final say of the law of the land. And this is an investigation that`s gone on for a year now. This president has three more years in his term. We as a Senate who always were designed by our Founders to be sort of the sobering, balancing, cooling plate as one metaphor was used for the American government, we should just put a pause and say let this investigation run its course before we move on something so consequential which could ultimately end up hobbling all of us in a constitutional crisis.
MADDOW: I mentioned in the earlier segment that one of the person who`s considered to be a short-lister for the nomination, and again, it`s all speculation at this point, but there`s a circuit court judge named Brett Kavanaugh who`s considered by a lot of people to be -- have a good chance at getting this nomination. He was a clerk for Justice Kennedy, for example.
He has written -- he`s on the record as saying that he doesn`t think that - - effectively doesn`t think that a president could be indicted, that it would be catastrophic for the country. Is that the sort of question -- it`s almost impossible for me to imagine a confirmation hearing in which the questions are all about can a president be indicted, can a president fire an FBI director in order to stop an investigation into himself, can a president pardon people in order to save himself or his family from an ongoing investigation?
There`s never been a confirmation hearing like that. But should we start to look at the public record of all these potential nominees to see if those opinions might be part of the reason they`re being chosen?
BOOKER: I think we`re at a moment now where these constitutional questions are coming up. And I believe given the president`s pattern of behavior that this is going to be on his mind, that he`s going to be trying to take measures to protect himself from this investigation. So, I think that is definitely -- should the president appoint and the head of the Judiciary Committee decide -- remember, he didn`t under President Obama agree to hold hearings. If he decides to hold hearings, if Grassley decides there`s no potential for a constitutional crisis or conflict of interest which I believe there is, I think it`s fair game in the hearings to go after this line of questioning.
MADDOW: Do you think that Democrats in general have come to a consensus view that this nomination shouldn`t be considered at least until after the election? We heard arguments about that early on, especially from Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer saying if we had to wait until after the election to consider Merrick Garland, we should wait until after the election now to consider who this nominee is. Is there consensus in your caucus on that?
BOOKER: I can`t speak to every one of my 48 colleagues, but let me say that was the robust feeling in our last caucus meeting that here we have an election, not like Obama -- with many months less than Obama was shy of election. We have different folks on record for not just talking about the election in regards to President Obama, but even talking about mentioning a different Senate. Amy Klobuchar read in our Judiciary Committee a quote from another Republican senator that said we`re about to have a new Senate, we should wait.
Given the McConnell rule, I said this is a crossroads. Either McConnell as doing that because he was setting a new standard in a rule or it was a cynical power grab undermining the Constitution of the United States in preventing President Obama from appointing someone. It`s one of those two.
So if he doesn`t abide by that rule, it`s been then exposed exactly what this was about and this is a Republican Party that will stop at nothing, even trampling the intentions of our Founders to make sure they control the Supreme Court.
MADDOW: If there`s an either/or there, the implication of both of them is that probably the next nominee should be delayed, right? If it was done for the right reasons or done for the wrong reasons, either way, presumably the response to that is not to let them go back to regular order for the next nominee.
BOOKER: And it`s a gut check for the American people, should we get that chance to vote in this election, do we want to take away individual rights, the rights for a woman to control her own body, the rights for people to marry for their choice? There are so many issues that will be decided about the power of individuals against powerful forces like corporations.
Remember, we saw Citizens United decide to put corporate billion dollars worth of power as equal speaking rights as ordinary American citizens, the ascendance write of corporations at the expense of individual rights, individual liberty. We see this continually being eroded. And now we can shift to things I think you and I in our lifetime could never imagine we would see, like entire states regardless of rape or incest banning abortion rights, taking away liberty of women all across this country.
This is all that`s in the balance. I think the American people should have this election to decide.
MADDOW: Senator, you are a member of the Foreign Relations Committee. And as such I`m going to exert cable news host privilege, which is a thing that doesn`t exist. I`d just -- I`d actually like to ask you to stay around for one more segment. There`s a little bit of breaking news that NBC has just broken on a foreign policy. Would you stick with us?
BOOKER: Yes, I will.
MADDOW: All right. We`ll be right back with Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MADDOW: Joining us once again here live in studio, Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey.
Senator, I want to ask you to stay over in part because of your role on the Foreign Relations Committee. Just to get your response to this shocking new report that`s just broken from NBC News. I`ll read you the lead.
U.S. intelligence agencies believe that North Korea has increased its production of fuel for nuclear weapons at multiple secret sites in recent months. U.S. officials tell NBC News the intelligence assessment has not been -- this intelligence assessment has not been previously reported. It seems to counter the sentiments expressed by President Donald Trump, who tweeted after his summit with Kim that there was no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea.
Analysts at the CIA and other intelligence agencies don`t see it that way, according to more than a dozen American officials who are familiar with this new assessment.
What`s your reaction to that?
BOOKER: Well, before we even get to this stunning revelation, it was already stunning to me. If this was a movie plot, and I was sitting in a film watching a film about American foreign policy, I would have whispered to somebody that this can`t happen in real life, that a president would engage with a totalitarian dictator, who`s murdered and slaughtered his people, call him honorable, suspend our operations, give them propaganda fuel by saying that our joint exercises are provocative, it`s basically giving in to their propaganda, not that this is about defending our allies, defending South Korea.
There were so many gives in this. And what did we get? Things we already had, a commitment to denuclearization, no timeline, no verification protocols.
MADDOW: And now, apparently the opposite of that if they`re continuing to develop their program.
BOOKER: Absolutely. We didn`t ask them to disclose anything before. So, now, we have intelligence agencies coming out and saying they are going -- they are enriching uranium at a faster pace. So nothing the president said is true.
We now have taken off of our maximum pressure strategy, we`ve relieved that pressure. We`ve undermined our allies by not informing them that we`re even doing some of the actions we did. This is just a malpractice, commander-in-chief malpractice plain and simple, in allowing this leader to continue to get over on the United States in ways that wasn`t even happening under previous administrations.
MADDOW: Senator Cory Booker, thank you for being here. I know Friday night it`s tough. Thank you.
BOOKER: Thank you very much.
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
Source