MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Supreme Court

Interview

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MADDOW: Here is what Democratic Senator Chris Murphy had to say on learning of the retirement of Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy today. He called this, quote, a red alert moment for the American people. Senator Murphy said, quote, Senator McConnell set a precedent when he refused to hold a hearing on Merrick Garland. He should stick to the rule he set.

Under the McConnell rule, the Senate shouldn't consider any nominee until January, and I expect Republicans in the Senate to honor that rule they all agreed to just two short years ago. If McConnell insist on starting proceedings on a radical Trump nominee, I will do everything to stop him.
What is in the senator's power in this instance?

Joining us now is Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut.

Senator, thank you very much for being with us tonight. Much appreciated.

MURPHY: Thanks a lot.

MADDOW: So the standard that was set by Senator McConnell when the Senate Republicans refused to allow a vote on president Obama's nominee after the Scalia seat became open in February of 2016, you've obviously cited that as a precedent you didn't agree with but you think should nevertheless be followed in this instance, that there shouldn't be a vote here until after the midterm elections and the new Congress is seated in January. Do your Democratic colleagues all agree with you on that?

MURPHY: Well, every single one of my colleagues that I've heard from today agrees with me. This was made very clear by Mitch McConnell, but not only Mitch McConnell. He had 50 other Republican senators that agreed with him who thought when you were that close to an election, you needed to let the American people speak.

And so, while we're sort of focusing our energy on McConnell today because he is the progenitor of that precedent, it is also important to remember that all of his colleagues agreed with him as well.

And while you are right to point out that maybe we are able to get one or two Republicans to break based upon what would happen to the issue of choice if Trump was able to get a new justice, we also only need one Republican to be significantly enough worried about the mind-blowing hypocrisy of having a different standard for Trump than you had for Obama to also stand up and say we should wait until after the election.

MADDOW: I feel like with Senators Murkowski and Collins, I can look at them and see what they've said about choice and see what their records, their mixed records have sort of been on the abortion rights issue over time to recognize that this is something they may not want to be the decisive vote that will likely result in the overturning of Roe versus Wade and the making abortion illegal.

When it comes to a Republican who's uncomfortable with rough, bare hypocrisy in terms of the treatment of Democratic versus Republican presidents, I don't know what to look for to recognize that.

MURPHY: Yes, no, I think you are right, which is why we have to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. So, I'm ready to make this argument anywhere and everywhere that McConnell set a precedent that he has to hold to.

But we also at the same time have to remember that for Murkowski and Collins in particular, past may be prologue. Remember, it was the fury of advocacy all around this country, around the respective repeal of the
affordable care act, something that most pundits in this country thought was a forgone conclusion when Republicans took control of the White House and the Senate that led to those two senators going in and casting very courageous and historic no votes. McCain gets the credit, but Murkowski and Collins voted no as well.

And so, we have to walk and chew gum at the same time, make the argument on precedent, but then go out and build a grassroots army of people in those states and throughout the country who are going to make the case that there will be a price to be paid at the polls if Republicans insist on pushing this nominee, a potentially radical nominee through.

So we've got to good out there and build a movement at the same time that we make the argument internally to our colleagues.

MADDOW: I feel like the reaction yesterday, the reaction this week to the Muslim ban ruling, the reaction today to the Supreme Court's ruling on union rights, which overturned more than 40 years of precedent in terms of protecting union rights in this country, those were depressing developments for Democrats and centrists, I think. They weren't necessarily unexpected developments, but they were nevertheless depressing.

When the Kennedy retirement news came out, I think people sort of thought maybe Clarence Thomas might retire today and that would give the president an opportunity to replace Clarence Thomas with another Clarence Thomas. The Kennedy retirement I think hit people like a gut punch.

But in your tone, I hear not just a sort of desire to fight here, but I hear a little bit of optimism in terms of how this fight might go over the next few months.

MURPHY: Yes. I'm fired up and everybody I talked to today is fired up, because though the highlight here will be about the future of choice in this country, we really have at a fulcrum moment between democracy and plutocracy. The only thing that stops you from moving into a country that is controlled exclusively by the elites is the ability of individuals to be able to politically organize.

And what the court has been doing consistently has been taking away that right, either to vote or to vote in clean elections or to collectively bargain. And the idea that you are going to now have five Supreme Court justices that are going to continue to take those rights away, potentially sending us into a downward spiral to a world in which regular people have no ability to affect outcomes in Washington, if that doesn't get you fired up for this moment, then I don't know what does.

And so, there are a lot of things at stake, not just choice in this decision that the Senate has to make. And that's why I think we have to go out and build that army while we argue internally with our colleagues.

MADDOW: Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut, thank you for being with us. I know it's a very busy, busy night, sir. Thank you for being here.

MURPHY: Thanks.

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