NBC News "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Supreme Court
Interview
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CHUCK TODD:Thanks for coming on and sharing your views. Joining me now from the other side of the aisle and actually from the state next door in Chicago is Democratic whip, the number two in the Senate, Dick Durbin of Illinois. Senator Durbin, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SENATOR DICK DURBIN:Thanks, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:I've got the Illinois/Missouri rivalry right in front of me here. Let me start with the Supreme Court. Mitch McConnell has said he'd like to see it go in the direction of either Thomas Hardiman or Raymond Kethledge, believing that they would be less controversial perhaps than the other two. What's your-- what's your assessment of that, sir?
SENATOR DICK DURBIN:Before I get into that, hearts and prayers are with those boys in Thailand trapped in the cave. I hope our hearts and prayers are also with thousands of children, toddlers, and infants removed from their parents by the Trump administration under zero tolerance. They're trapped in a bureaucratic cave too, so let's not forget them. But to your question, all of these nominees have been pre-cleared by something called the Federalist Society. This is a group that looks carefully at each one of the nominees to make certain that they can check all the boxes when it comes to the most conservative political agenda in America. So whoever is nominated by the president, I was told by the White House they'll come off that list. Leonard Leo, the leader of this group, is the one who made the key decision.
CHUCK TODD:So what is the Democratic party's strategy in the Senate? You have--you can do the math, you know you have 49 Democratic senators. First let me ask you this, is everybody going to be united?
SENATOR DICK DURBIN:I can't say that until the president announces his nominee. Obviously each senator understands this is an historic decision. It'll decide the future of this court for a generation or more and so I know they'll look carefully at each nominee. I can't predict how all of my 49 -- or 48 colleagues in the Senate on the Democratic side will vote. I will tell you though, simple math tells you if John McCain is absent it's a 50/49 Senate. One Republican senator can decide the fate of any Supreme Court nominee.
CHUCK TODD:In 2016--I'm going to play a quote of yours in September of 2016 about that -- the other Supreme Court vacancy that we were dealing with back then. Here's what you said.
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SENATOR DICK DURBIN:In a few weeks the Supreme Court will start its new term with eight justices; we need nine. Major legal questions are hanging in limbo because the court is deadlocked on four/four votes.
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CHUCK TODD:There's been some talk among some of your colleagues for Democrats to push for a delay until after the election. Obviously you didn't like that in 2016. Where are you on this?
SENATOR DICK DURBIN:Well, I asked Senator McConnell when Kennedy made his announcement whether he was going to be consistent. He said during the course of the vacancy at the end of the Obama presidency, "Let's wait and let the people decide in an election." Many of his colleagues came to the floor on the Republican side and said, "The people of this country are going to vote. They'll decide the future of the Supreme Court." Well, I asked Senator McConnell, "Are you going to use the same standard this go-around?" And obviously he is not. The net result of that, of course, is that we are going to move forward quickly to fill the vacancy. And I think it's pretty clear Senator McConnell was seizing the moment, stopping Obama from filling the vacancy with an extraordinarily qualified man--
CHUCK TODD:No, I understand that, but where are you on this now? Do you want it delayed? I understand you want to point out hypocrisy on McConnell's side. But there's hypocrisy on your side on this too, right? Do you think if it was wrong to delay in 2016, is it wrong to delay now?
SENATOR DICK DURBIN:Well, come on, Chuck. Get real. Senator McConnell invented this new rule and wouldn't even consider a meeting with Merrick Garland. And now he's saying--
CHUCK TODD:I take your point--
SENATOR DICK DURBIN:--we have to hurry through here and get this done before the election. Totally inconsistent. He's either wrong the first time or wrong the second time. The net result is he's trying to play to his political advantage.
CHUCK TODD:What did you guys do wrong in the Merrick Garland situation? If you could redo it, how would you do it?
SENATOR DICK DURBIN:I'm not sure we could've changed it. When it reached the point where the Senate Republican leader refused to even meet with the nominee of President Obama, a man extremely well-qualified, it was clear that the fix was in. They were going to keep this vacant in the hopes that they could put a Republican in the White House. It happened. And now Neil Gorsuch, chosen by the Federalist Society as well, has gone to the bench, is voting in lockstep on the Republican conservative side. And they want to fill this vacancy to give them an advantage in any future rulings.
CHUCK TODD:I got to ask you though, now going backwards even before Garland, let's go to the Harry Reid decision back in 2013 when you decided to scrap it for everything but the Supreme Court, the filibuster. There were predictions this would be slippery slope, and here we go. In hindsight, mistake?
SENATOR DICK DURBIN:I think at that time Harry Reid faced an impossible decision. They had announced -- The Republicans had announced they would not fill the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, which is a critical court, second only to the Supreme Court in its importance. They were facing all of these filibusters day after day, jurist after jurist, and Harry Reid made this decision. He did make an exception for the Supreme Court, which Mitch McConnell swept away. Chuck, let me tell you though, we look at this decision in general terms and talk about the process.
CHUCK:
Yeah
SENATOR DICK DURBIN:
But let's get down to the heart of it. This Supreme Court is going to decide whether or not people in families with pre-existing conditions can have access to affordable health insurance. That's it. It's real, and it's a constitutional challenge by the Trump administration this court will face. This court will decide the future of women's health care and the freedom of women to make choices about the future of their families. That is a critical decision this court will face. So beyond the procedure, beyond the gamesmanship, it is a life and death important decision to be made by this court on so many issues.
CHUCK TODD:And yet you have this political dilemma that stares, I think, you and Chuck Schumer really in the face as the two leaders, which is this: staying united to stop the Supreme Court pick could cost you red state senators. Not fighting it as hard might allow the red state senators to get reelected and get Democrats in control of the Senate. That's your dilemma.
SENATOR DICK DURBIN:It is a dilemma in one respect but not in another. I will tell you, the men and women that I work with on the Democratic side really take this seriously. They understand it's an historic decision. It's about more than the next election. It's about what country the United States of America is going to chart as its course in the future on this Supreme Court. I think each and every one of them take that seriously, that personally. It goes beyond the next election.
CHUCK TODD:All right. And final question, you brought up the issue of trying to reunify these kids with their parents, the migrants at the border. A court -- the Trump administration is trying to buy more time. The court doesn't look like they're going to give them that more time. What's the recourse though? If a court says, you know, "No, you're not living up to this commitment," it's not like you can put HHS in jail or something. What is the actual recourse?
SENATOR DICK DURBIN:I can tell you this: what we see in this process, forcibly removing children from their parents at the border and then putting them adrift on a bureaucratic sea where they can't even find them. If you take a child into a hospital for treatment the first thing they do is strap a bracelet on the wrist to make sure they aren't lost in the hospital. It is a convergence of cruelty and incompetence that brings us to this moment. And now it's up to a judge, a federal judge in San Diego to enforce his order this Tuesday so that children under the age of five are reunited--
CHUCK TODD:How do you enforce it? How do you enforce it if the administration's saying--
SENATOR DICK DURBIN:Well, if they--
CHUCK TODD:--"We only have so many resources?"
SENATOR DICK DURBIN:I can tell you, they have the resources to get it done. Chuck, this is not an accident. This is a policy of deterrence to stop future flow, to be mean to these kids and their families to say to others, "Don't even try it." And that, to me, is cruel. It's not what America's all about.
CHUCK TODD:Senator Dick Durbin, I have to leave it there. Democrat from Illinois. Senator, thanks for coming on and sharing your views. Much appreciated.
SENATOR DICK DURBIN:Thanks. Good to be with you--
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