NBC News "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Supreme Court
Interview
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CHUCK TODD:
Well, joining me for the Supreme Court discussion are two senators, Democrat Maria Cantwell of Washington state and Republican Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, who sits on the judiciary committee. We're going to begin though with Senator Cantwell out in Washington state. Senator, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL:
Good morning.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me start with the basic question here. Help me out. Where, where do you sit? It feels as if Senate Democrats in general all--have all sorts of ideas on how to handle this Supreme Court fight. What is yours?
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL:
Well, this is a very different Supreme Court discussion because everyone in the United States Senate who's going to vote on this knows that it will change the balance of power. So you're not just voting on whether you think Trump should have his nominee, you're voting on whether that nominee is going to change precedent when it comes to a whole host of issues of women's right to choose, your access to health care. Whether if you have diabetes or asthma, all of a sudden a preexisting condition is no longer allowed and you have to pay more for insurance. So I think that my colleagues on both sides of the aisle know that this vote could be a-- one of the key votes of their entire career. And they know that, no matter what spin comes out of the White House, if they vote for somebody who's going to change precedent, it could be a career ending move.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay. That's fine to say that in the aftermath. But the numbers are the numbers, right? We know what the numbers are in the Senate. The rules have been changed. Bear majority now does this. So you're, it sounds like you want to defeat this nominee for sure, or are you trying to inspire President Trump to pick a moderate?
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL:
Well, we, well I would love President Trump to pick somebody in the mainstream of American views who are going to hold up years, and years and years of precedent. The one great thing about our nation is an independent judiciary. In times of intense political debate, the fact that we have that independent judiciary that will uphold the law is key to what is so great about our country. We're a 51/49 Senate. And if he wants to throw an extreme conservative who basically says, "I'm not going to follow precedent --
CHUCK TODD:
Right
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL:
-- I'm not going to follow these laws," then yes, that to me is a major change and something the president should be sitting down with moderates--
CHUCK TODD:
Right
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL:
-- on that advise and consent. And say, "What would be good for America?"
CHUCK TODD:
All right. But the reality is I think we know where this is headed on a partisan scale, considering the president is only looking at nominees pre-vetted by the Federalist Society. So we know he's going to pick some-- more of a traditional conservative. So I ask you, how do Democrats, then, can you defeat this nominee if it comes from that? Are you hoping to woo Senators Murkowski and Collins? Is that the plan here?
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL:
Well, the plan here is to speak out about the change in balance in the Court. You are not just voting, as was with Gorsuch, for just one more name. You know that Justice Kennedy was a swing vote. That he was a Libertarian. That sometimes he sided with the conservative justices, sometimes he upheld what were very important issues of marriage equality, of issues on the environment. So for my colleagues in moderate states, whether that's Democrat or Republican, you're really going to have to decide, "Am I voting for a justice that's going to hold up the Clean Air Act or the Clean Water Act? Am I voting for a justice that is really going to hold up Roe v. Wade or a woman's right to have the freedom to do what she wants with her body?" These are issues-- it's not going to be about what they say, it's going to be about whether you really believe that justice, given what the president has said he's willing to nominate.
CHUCK TODD: What are you willing to do--
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL:
So these are going to be very--
CHUCK TODD:
I understand that. But what're you -- there's some Democratic activists who think that you guys are going to have a confirmation hearing and you're not going to do whatever it takes to stop any justice that the president nominates if it does come from a more conservative, a conservative era. There was one person quoted, one activist--
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL:
Well Chuck there's--
CHUCK TODD:
--quoted in The New York Times today saying, you know, they'd like to see some civil disobedience in the Senate. Do you buy into that?
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL:
Well, I'll tell you what, I'm all for making sure this debate gets every bit of attention. But I'm so anxious to hear whatever this nominee has to say. Is the president able to pardon himself? Do you believe in the emoluments clause, that basically there should be a conflict of interest that, if there is one, the president shouldn't be able to participate in special self-interest? I want to know what he thinks about the process of how far the Mueller investigation needs to go, and will they fight to protect that? I'm interested in hearing what kind of nominee is going to be on the bench and if the president is under indictment, what is that nominee going to do about that? So these are monumental questions.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL:
And this is a person who wants 40 years on the Court, or probably 40 years. I want at least 40 minutes to hear what they have to say about these important issues.
CHUCK TODD:
So you would have an easier time, I think, getting your moderate if the rules of the Senate hadn't been changed. I want to play for you a remark Mitch McConnell made in 2013 when then Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid changed the rules for lower Court nominations. Here's what he said.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SENATOR MCCONNELL:
Say to my friends on the other side of the aisle you'll regret this. And you may regret it a lot sooner than you think.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Do you regret it?
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL:
Well, we're dealing with what we're dealing with today. And I doubt that whatever the circumstances of the rules were then or now, that they would be preceding on this with 51 votes. The issue is there's so many things before the American people. And this position will change the balance of the Court. The president has the right to nominate somebody, as he says--
CHUCK TODD:
But Senator, you had an attempt--
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL:
--who he wants to change the balance.
CHUCK TODD:
You want to just ignore that? I guess I disagree with--
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL:
No, no, no, no. I want to --
CHUCK TODD:
--you. You just want to ignore--
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL:
--deal with--
CHUCK TODD:
-- that past. I mean, that is why we're in this situation--
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL:
No.
CHUCK TODD:
--now, where a bear majority decides the future of the Court.
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL:
Well, it's what we're dealing with today. And I'm not ignoring it. But I tell you, Chuck, I have been around my state this weekend and people are anxious about health care. They're anxious about the detention of people who are seeking asylum in the United States. They want to know what is going to happen with this Court nominee. They are so anxious that key rights that have been bestowed upon Americans are going to be rolled back. So yes, they want to know what we're going to do about it. And what I want to make perfectly clear is that this is not a normal Supreme Court justice vote.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah
CHUCK TODD:
You know for sure that your vote is changing the balance. And I want all my colleagues to have the time to take, that it is not a rushed process, to know whether this nominee is going to uphold those American rights or not. That is what we deserve to know.
CHUCK TODD:
What's the definition of a rushed process? Do you think this should be delayed till after the election or do you think we should know before the election where people stand on this?
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL:
Well, I am sure that the president is in a hurry because he's already said he's going to make a decision by July 9th. And what I would say is that advise and consent role, I'd be sitting down with the moderates to say, "What kind of justice do we need in the United States for this process to make sure that basic rights are upheld?"
CHUCK TODD:
Do you want it delayed?
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL:
But I think they're going to skip that.
CHUCK TODD:
But do you want it delayed till after the election or not?
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL:
Well, I would love that because I want to make sure that we have enough time--
CHUCK TODD:
Okay
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL:
-- and that the issues are discussed and that we have our rights heard. That's what I would like.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Senator Cantwell, I'm going other have to leave it there. Senator, thanks for coming on and sharing your views. I appreciate it.
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL:
Thank you.
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