CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview With Maine Senator Susan Collins

Interview

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TAPPER: Hello. I'm Jake Tapper in Washington, where the state of our union is gearing up for a summer fight.

President Trump is taking a working weekend at his golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey. He plans to announce a nominee to replace Justice Anthony Kennedy on the Supreme Court only eight days from now, on July 9.

Saturday, the president spoke over the phone to White House counsel Don McGahn and is expected to interview one or two candidates for that seat this weekend. Democrats warn that the president's choice could put abortion rights, same-sex marriage, and affirmative action at risk.

The campaign to sway votes on Capitol Hill is in full swing. One day after Justice Kennedy announced his retirement, the president hosted a group of senators whose votes likely will decide whether his nominee is confirmed.

Three are Democrats facing tough reelection battles in red states that Trump won in 2016, and two are Republican women, Senators Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins. They support abortion rights and have voted against the president's agenda in the past.

And Republican Senator Susan Collins of Maine is joining me now. She's also a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Senator Collins, thanks so much for joining us, as always.

I want to start on the White House meeting you had with President Trump on Thursday night about that Supreme Court vacancy. It's no secret that you could be a, if not the deciding vote on this nomination. What did President Trump tell you to try to get your vote?

COLLINS: Well, the president really was soliciting my views on the type of nominee that I was looking for.

I emphasized that I wanted a nominee who would respect precedent, a fundamental tenet of our judicial system. I also encouraged the president to broaden his list beyond the list of 25 potential nominees that has been public for some time.

TAPPER: Well, that -- that list of 25 names, let's talk about it for one second.

Are you comfortable with everyone on that list?

COLLINS: No, I am not.

Now, some of the people on the list, I have not vetted at all at this point. One of them, I voted against years ago. And I would have to do a great deal more work on many of them. TAPPER: You know, President Trump says he's not going to ask the

candidates whether they would vote to overturn Roe vs. Wade. That's what he says today.

But I want you to take a listen to what he told me about this issue during the very first days of his candidacy on this show. Take a listen.

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TAPPER: President Trump saying -- then he was a candidate, now he's a president -- saying abortion is a litmus test for him.

You say Roe is settled law. Given the president's comments, is it fair to expect that any nominee he selects will vote to overturn Roe vs. Wade?

COLLINS: Well, the president told me in our meeting that he would not ask that question.

And that is what he has most recently said, on the advice of his attorney. So, I think what he said as the candidate may not have been informed by the legal advice that he now has, that it would be inappropriate for him to ask a nominee how he or she would rule on a specific issue.

TAPPER: With all due respect, the Supreme Court, as we know, it overturns its own rulings all the time. It has overruled more than 200 of its own decisions, once just last week.

[09:05:08]

And it is a stated goal of President Trump and Vice President Pence to appoint Supreme Court justices who will vote to overturn Roe vs. Wade.

I mean, whether they said it on the campaign trail or they say it now is almost immaterial. It's a stated goal.

Take a listen to Vice President Pence. This is him campaigning for the job in 2016.

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TAPPER: "The ash heap of history."

A lot of women around the country are looking to you right now. Almost seven in 10 women, according to a new poll, want Roe vs. Wade to stay intact.

What do you say to those women who say, what are you going to do here? How are you going to protect this right?

COLLINS: Well, first of all, let me say that there's big difference between overturning some precedents, such as Plessy vs. Ferguson, which was overturned in the school desegregation case of Brown vs. the Board of Education, vs. overturning a ruling that has been settled law for 46 years -- 45 years.

And it involves a constitutional right and has been reaffirmed by the court 26 years ago. Indeed, Justice Roberts has made very clear that he considers Roe v. Wade to be settled law.

I would not support a nominee who demonstrated hostility to Roe v. Wade, because that would mean to me that their judicial philosophy did not include a respect for established decisions, established law.

And I believe that that is a very important, fundamental tenet of our judicial system, which, as Chief Justice Roberts says, helps to promote stability and even-handedness.

TAPPER: So, you will not support anyone who has demonstrated hostility towards Roe vs. Wade, but there are plenty of justices that The Federalist Society and other experts likely think will vote to overturn Roe vs. Wade, but they don't have a record of hostility towards Roe vs. Wade.

For instance, don't you think, just as an academic matter, Neil Gorsuch, for whom you voted, don't you think he is probably going to vote to overturn Roe vs. Wade if given the chance?

COLLINS: I actually don't.

I had a very long discussion with Justice Gorsuch in my office, and he pointed out to me that he is a co-author of a whole book on precedent. So, someone who devotes that much time to writing a book on precedent, I think, understands how important a principle that is in our judicial system.

TAPPER: You know that there are a lot...

COLLINS: You know, Jake...

TAPPER: Go ahead. I'm sorry.

COLLINS: There are many judges who have said to me that, if you are not unhappy with some of your decisions, then you're not a good judge.

I think judges have to have the ability to put aside their personal views, and rule on the facts of the case with fidelity to the law and the Constitution.

TAPPER: I don't have to tell you this, but you're going to get a lot of pressure from groups and individuals who support abortion rights.

And one of the things that they think about you is that you get played by these judges and that, ultimately, if you vote to support whoever President Trump nominee -- nominates, presuming that person comes from this list of 25, that one of your longest-lasting legacies is likely going to be that you voted to confirm a justice who ultimately tipped the balance of power, political power, on the court and voted to overturn Roe.

COLLINS: Well, I know that's what the left is saying.

And that's just so at odds with my record. I have year after year been named the most bipartisan member of the whole United States Senate. I have proved my independence.

And, more important, I care deeply about who serves on the court. I have voted against justices and I -- I mean, judges, and I have voted for them. I supported both of President Obama's appointments to the Supreme Court.

And I always have the same kinds of discussions in my office. I do a lot of work on the record of the appointee. And I ask probing questions to try to determine whether they are going to be an activist judge with an agenda, which I don't want on either the left or the right.

[09:10:12]

I want a judge who will apply the law to the facts of the case, with fidelity to the Constitution. Roe v. Wade is a constitutional right that is well-established. And no less an authority than Chief Justice Roberts said that repeatedly at his confirmation hearing.

TAPPER: You're on the Senate Intelligence Committee.

I want to get your views about this new report in "The Washington Post" saying that American intelligence communities have concluded that North Korea does not actually intend to denuclearize, and North Korea is now working on ways to conceal how many nuclear weapons and production facilities it has.

This, of course, comes fewer than three weeks after President Trump declared that the nuclear threat from North Korea is over.

What do you know about this? And do you think the president is getting played by North Korea?

COLLINS: This is a very troubling report. There's no doubt about it.

And North Korea has a long history of cheating on agreements that it's made with previous administrations.

I supported the president talking with the North Korean dictator because I do believe that has the potential for increasing our safety and eventually leading to the denuclearization of North Korea.

But there's no doubt that, in order to achieve that goal, we need verifiable, unimpeded, reliable inspections. And, without those inspections, we can have no guarantee that North Korea is not cheating once again.

TAPPER: When you see President Trump say things like the threat, the nuclear threat from North Korea is over, are you concerned that he's getting played?

COLLINS: I don't think that the threat is over.

And I think that the president has advisers who will come to him, brief him about these alleged new findings, and that he will be cautious in proceeding. And he should be, because the record of North Korea is one of broken promises.

I will point out that there have not been tests of nuclear weapons, nor ballistic missiles, since the president met with the North Korean dictator.

TAPPER: Senator Susan Collins of Maine, thank you so much for your time. We always appreciate it.

COLLINS: Thank you.

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