CNN "Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees" - Transcript: Interview with Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont

Interview

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COOPER: Jason Carroll, thanks very much. Appreciate it.

The president acted today in the face of Republican paralysis of two proposed immigration bills, each containing language on keeping families together. And again, just as a reminder, the president didn't really need Congress to act as he demonstrated today. That however was quickly pushed aside by the breaking news.

Joining us now with his take on it, the senator and former presidential candidate, Bernie Sanders.

Senator Sanders, thanks for being with us.

I'm wondering your reaction is, first of all, to the news of 2,300 kids who have been separated from their parents will not be reunited with them, and it's not clear when or how they will be or if.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: You know, Anderson, there's almost nothing that one can say. The idea of tearing little children from the arms of their parents, putting them into detention cages, and then making a big deal about an executive order which may do absolutely nothing for these 2,300 children is literally beyond belief.

Trump once again has lied. He told the American people that this was a policy created by Congress, could only be addressed by Congress. He was lying. Of course, it was a crisis that he created and attempted to address today. But he didn't go anywhere near far enough.

So, where we are right now is close to 2,400 kids are still separated from their parents. There is no understanding as your reporters have indicated when these children will be reunited. Furthermore, we have a situation where the Trump administration now their solution is to provide indefinite detention. So, I presume that for the new people who are arrested, they will be with their children in jail for an indefinite period of time because the Trump administration wants to undo the Flores settlement which focuses on the needs of children and limits the 20 days, the number of days that children can be in jail. Bottom line to all of this is that this country needs fundamental and comprehensive immigration reform, which deals with this, this issue, which deals with the DACA crisis and which deals with the 10 million people who are undocumented in this country right now.

[20:10:13] COOPER: The president is saying he wanted a longer term solution and that's what he was holding out for. He obviously was blaming the Democrats.

Do you believe this executive order was anything other than a public relations band-aid?

SANDERS: Look, you know, I say this often and I don't want to be misunderstood. It -- you know, I don't mean to be overly partisan but we have a president who lies all of the time, including on this issue.

Just the other day, you correct me if I'm wrong. He was saying I can't do anything about it. This is congressional action that is needed. Well, it turned out, of course, that was not true.

He created the crisis. He could end the crisis. So, I think what has happened is when you have millions of Americans, my phone, my phone lines in Burlington and here in Washington are bouncing off the hook. People in Vermont that I know, people all over this country, cannot believe that in the United States of America we are putting these kids into detention camps.

So there's outrage. You have Laura Bush talking about this action being eerily reminiscent of what happened to Japanese-Americans during World War II. That is from the wife of a conservative Republican president. You have the pope speaking out on this issue. You have leaders all over the world saying what is going on in the United States of America?

So, I think Trump had to respond to that. But clearly, he sees from his political perspective that being anti-immigrant is a winner for him politically. I don't think it is but that's his logic. And he will continue to mount a very strong anti-immigrant effort.

By the way, in the midst of all of this stuff, so we don't get distracted, we had the leadership in the Republican leadership in the House talking now after giving a trillion dollars in tax break dos the top 1 percent coming up with a budget to make massive cuts to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

So -- go ahead. I'm sorry.

COOPER: You talked about the Flores settlement which limits how long kids can be held in detention to 20 days. Is it clear to you -- I mean, the administration clearly wants to reverse that in the courts. It is not clear they're going to be able to do that. The judges very easily could say, no. That's the court ruling was. That court ruling is going to hold.

If, in fact, they're not able to change that ruling, is it clear to you what happens? Do the separations resume? You know, if the court says, no, the Flores settlement remains, you can't hold these kids more than 20 days, therefore, do they go back to separating them?

SANDERS: Well, that's -- you're asking a good question of which nobody knows the answer, I think. What you're suggesting is if the -- as I understand it is if the parents remain imprisoned and the children cannot be held more than 20 days, what happens to those kids?

COOPER: Right.

SANDERS: And you're right. I don't think anybody knows the answer. But it may well mean that those kids will then be separated from their parents.

And here's the absurdity. I think we have a mechanism now to keep track of those families, to make sure that they get to court when they should get to court. And, by the way, do that for much lower cost to the taxpayers than imprisoning parents and children.

COOPER: You're talking about ankle monitoring or even house arrest in some cases which is --

SANDERS: Right, there are --

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COOPER: -- a lot cheaper.

SANDERS: Yes, that's right. Certainly, and let's not forget. I mean, the bottom line of this thing, I want everybody to appreciate the trauma. I suspect permanent trauma to a child of 3 or 4 who cannot speak English who is suddenly taken away from his or her parents, put into a private detention center surrounded by people in uniform. My God. You don't have to be a child psychologist to know that the damage that that has done.

And your question is a good one. We don't know what happens if the Flores settlement is maintained. Will Trump release the parents with the children or will he keep them separated?

COOPER: In terms of what is happening in Congress, where I said the administration insists of placing responsibility, there's a Republican -- Republicans call a compromise bill on the House, which Republicans are actually divided on. There's also a more narrow Republican bill in the Senate.

Have you seen any piece of legislation that you could support that has any chance of passing both chambers?

SANDERS: No. I think what the Republicans -- there are two pieces of legislation. One is bad. One is worse.

And here's the irony. The irony is that the American people overwhelmingly, poll after poll after poll, want comprehensive immigration reform. The American people are appalled at the separation of children from their parents.

[20:15:01] The American people want differing opinions, but a majority of the American people believe we should have comprehensive immigration reform and a path toward citizenship.

So, that is the issue that some of us in the Senate have worked on and yet we're not certainly getting any support from the president who sees anti-immigration as I guess a good political strategy for him.

COOPER: Is the president -- finally, I mean, is he using this to try to get funding on the border wall? I mean, is that sort of a bottom line for him? Because clearly, he felt, you know, he didn't get the funding that he wanted earlier and there were obviously concerns raised by some of his supporters that he was looking weak on immigration, on illegal immigration.

SANDERS: Yes, maybe, maybe. I don't know. But I think more importantly, you have a president who has given tax breaks to billionaires, who wants to cut programs that working people desperately need and he thinks as authoritarian types all over Europe believe, that if you foment anger against immigrants and show how strong and tough you are on those little children, that it will get you votes in elections.

I think that's pretty pathetic. But I think ultimately that is his strategy.

COOPER: Senator Sanders, appreciate your time. Thank you.

SANDERS: Thank you.

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