MSNBC "All in with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Russian Investigations

Interview

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HAYES: The Times reported this week that Trump pressured Sessions to un- recuse himself last March at Mar-a-Lago after giving him the silent treatment for two days. Trump reportedly berating Sessions and telling him he should reverse the decision over dinner. Now Axios reports the Trump made that request at least four separate times and told Sessions that he quote be a hero to conservatives if he did the "right thing" and took back control over the investigation.

Trump also reportedly told Sessions he`d be a hero if he investigated Hillary Clinton, a direct appeal to prosecute fundamentally a political enemy that`s both the threat to the independence of the Justice Department but also an echo of the type of behavior that we see all the time from corrupt and authoritarian regimes the world over. Joining me now to respond to Trump`s pressuring Sessions, the top Democrat in the House Intelligence Committee Congressman Adam Schiff, Democrat of California. Congressman, the President pressuring the Attorney General to retake control the Russian investigation behind the scenes, is that appropriate?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA, RANKING MEMBER, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: No of course not. And there`s so much to be distressed about what we learned today. Here you have the President who is effectively telling the Attorney General you should ignore what the Ethics Lawyers of the Justice Department are saying.

I want you to reinstate yourself in an investigation that implicates either me or my campaign because you`re my Attorney General, it`s my Justice Department, and what`s more, you can be a hero to conservatives if you`ll investigate my vanquished rival. When we meet with parliamentarians from emerging democracies, we always urge them you know, when you win an election you don`t seek to jail the losing side. And here, our own President of United States is trying to do exactly that.

HAYES: How big a deal is it fundamentally?

SCHIFF: Well it`s a big deal in this respect. It`s further evidence of a corrupt intent on the President`s part, further evidence that he may have violated the law by obstructing justice in the firing of Comey but in other efforts as well. And one of the other disturbing signs we saw just today is the President`s announcement that he`s going to pardon someone who had violated campaign finance laws by surreptitiously exceeding limits. It looks a lot like a message to Michael Cohen who may also be implicated in exceeding campaign limits with that Stormy Daniels payment.

And then you have the further announcement by the President that he may pardon Martha Stewart, another T.V. personality who was convicted of guess what, obstruction of justice and lying to authorities. So he`s nothing if not transparent. The problem is that the fact that this is out in the open, that these actions to obstruct justice don`t make it any less problematic for the country or for the rule of law.

HAYES: The President tweeted this today that not that it matters but I never fired James Comey because of Russia. The corrupt mainstream media loves to keep pushing that narrative but they know it`s not true. Of course, the president said he was thinking of Russia when he decided to fire James Comey in that infamous Lester Holt interview. Why do you think he`s saying that now?

SCHIFF: Well, I think he realized that he`s in some legal jeopardy that much of what Mueller is looking at involves the issue of destruction and that goes to his intent and he`s got a problem. He laid out his intent for millions of viewers on NBC in that same mainstream media that he is now bashing. He told the American people that he had Russia on his mind when he did it.

And of course, the pretext he`d now like us to believe that he fired Comey over Comey`s mishandling of the Clinton e-mail investigation doesn`t square at all with the fact that he had been praising Comey for exactly that previously. So it really makes no sense from a logical perspective he`s contradicting himself, but from a legal perspective he knows he`s in jeopardy and I guess he thinks that if he muddy the waters further, it will make it that much more difficult for Bob Mueller to establish intent.

HAYES: I want to get your reaction to something one of your colleagues said on the committee that you work on. This is Trey Gowdy and he had this to say about the President`s claims about conspiracy, a spy implanted in his campaign. Take a listen what he said.

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HAYES: Rudy Giuliani also saying that Trey Gowdy has drunk the Kool-Aid. He`s drinking the Kool-Aid when he decided to say that. Have you -- have you been feeding Trey Gowdy the Kool-Aid? What do you -- what do you think is fairly definitive pronouncement on this score?

SCHIFF: No I don`t think direct ray Gowdy is drinking the Kool-Aid but he`s also not running for your re-election. And we have seen among a great member -- great many members of the House and Senate who are not running for re-election that they feel more free to be truthful and straightforward about the false statements of the President, shortcomings of administration, potential corruption problems in administration, even so there are very few of the Republican members at all, even those leaving office that are willing to speak out and I`m glad he is here.

HAYES: Do you -- do you have in your mind a kind of threshold break glass moment? I mean, when you look at -- the President is clearly increasing pressure from the Justice Department. I don`t think there`s any question about that. We`re getting more and more reporting about that pressure. You know, what is the -- what`s the -- what toggles over into crisis in your mind? What`s the break glass moment?

SCHIFF: Well, the break last moment I think is if he affirmatively fires people at the Justice Department. That to me I think is you know, goes well across the line and really prompts a national crisis. And it`s a constitutional crisis because the Constitution gives us no clear direction about what should happen under those circumstances. But look, what we`re seeing I think in small steps, sometimes not so small steps is the slow
undoing of our system of checks and balances.

That is not quite as visible as a Saturday night massacre, but it`s this abuse of the pardon power, it`s this browbeating of the Justice Department. Rudy Giuliani is now saying if we don`t get access to materials that should not be provided to the defense but we don`t get access that we`re not going to make the President available and essentially trying to browbeat the Justice Department into giving Congress materials that can be then surreptitiously shared with the President`s defense team. All of that ought to concern us in the aggregate as much as any particular firing.

HAYES: All right, Congressman Adam Schiff, thanks for being with me.

SCHIFF: Thanks, Chris.

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