CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview With Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders

Interview

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TAPPER: Joining me now, independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, who caucuses with the Democrats.

Senator, thanks for joining us.

I want to start with that new poll number. The midterms are now fewer than six months away. The economy is stronger. We are at virtually full employment. Why would anyone want to vote for change right now?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Well, I think what you have is a president who promised the American people to provide health care to everybody, and then proceeded to support legislation to throw 32 million people off of health insurance.

And most Americans think that health care should be a right of all people. We're moving in exactly the wrong direction.

You have a president, Jake, who said that his tax reform bill would not help the rich. Yet 83 percent of the benefits are going to the top 1 percent, and millions of middle-class families over a 10-year period will be paying more in taxes.

You have a president who campaigned, appropriately enough, on the outrageous ripoffs of the pharmaceutical industry, and he said he was going to take them on. And just the other day, he caved in, of course, and did not go forward in demanding that we negotiate -- Medicare negotiate prices with the drug companies or that we allow our pharmacists and distributors to re-import low-cost medicine from abroad.

So, I think what the American people perceive is, you have a president who says one thing and does another thing. And the fact is that we have -- while the economy is doing well, you have tens of millions of people who continue to work for wages that are far, far too low. We need to raise the minimum wage to at least 15 bucks an hour. The

president talked about that during the campaign, but he has forgotten that since he is -- has been elected president.

So, I think, in many ways, you have a president who said something during the campaign and is moving in a very, very different direction after he took office.

TAPPER: I want to get your reaction to my interview with President Trump's new national security adviser, Ambassador John Bolton.

He said President Trump is already undergoing extensive preparations on North Korea. What was your response to the interview?

[09:30:03]

B. SANDERS: Well, I got to say something.

Needless to say, I disagree with John on a whole lot, but I will give him credit for chutzpah.

This is a man who was a key adviser to President Bush, George W. Bush, in urging him to get involved and to invade Iraq because, supposedly, Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

As I think most Americans now know, that effort in Iraq was the worst foreign policy disaster in the modern history of this country. We lost 4,400 American soldiers, brave soldiers, 31,000 wounded, half-a- million Iraqis dead.

And then Bolton talks about, appropriately so, the increased influence that Iran now has in Iraq. Yes, that's true. And that's precisely because of the war in Iraq.

So, I think you have some people, unfortunately, in Washington, Bolton being one of them, who believe that war and militarism is the answer to everything. We have spent over $2 trillion in the wars in Iraq, in Afghanistan, and yet, today, our infrastructure here in the United States is crumbling.

We have millions of people can't afford to go to college or are leaving college deeply in debt. Maybe, just maybe, we might want to be investing in the American people, rather than inflated military budgets and more and more wars.

TAPPER: You heard Ambassador Bolton say some nice things about Senator John McCain after this White House aide, Kelly Sadler, made this disgusting joke about his vote doesn't matter because he is going to die anyway.

You have served in the Senate with McCain for more than a decade. It was a meaningful moment last summer when he returned to the Senate. You gave him a hug on the Senate floor. This is right after he had returned from Arizona, where he was being treated for brain cancer.

What is your response to the comment from Kelly Sadler, the White House official who joked that McCain was dying anyway, so his vote doesn't matter? What was your reaction? And what do you think about the White House not apologizing?

B. SANDERS: Well, let me just say this.

I have known John McCain for many years. And, obviously, he and I have strong differences of opinion, although we did work together on a major veterans bill. And I personally like John very, very much. He is very well-respected in the Senate and in the country.

And, Jake, it is beyond my comprehension. It is one thing in the White House for somebody to say something crude and stupid and disrespectful about an American hero. It is another thing for them not to apologize.

So, it is beyond my comprehension. And I just don't know what goes on in that White House mentality for there not being an apology for that terrible remark.

TAPPER: White House Chief of Staff John Kelly did an interview with NPR this morning. He was asked about his response to people who say it's heartless for U.S. border officials to separate families of undocumented immigrants, separate parents from children.

He said -- quote -- "I wouldn't put it quite that way. The children will be taken care of, put into foster care or whatever. But the big point is, they elected to come illegally into the United States, and this is a technique that no one hopes will be used extensively or for very long."

What are your thoughts?

B. SANDERS: I think it is heartless.

I think the entire Trump views on immigration is heartless. You know, in the last polls that I have seen, some 80 percent of the American people believe that we should provide legal status to the 1.8 million people in the DACA program who are eligible for DACA. And that's a program that Trump killed.

The American people believe that we should move forward for comprehensive immigration reform. And Trump is moving in exactly the wrong direction.

And we see the cruelty of his immigration policies when you talk about the United States government separating children from their parents. We need to move aggressively and do what the American people want toward comprehensive immigration reform.

TAPPER: Senator, I want to ask you.

One of President Trump's major nominees is on the docket for the Senate this week, Gina Haspel, nominated to be the next CIA director, the first woman CIA director. You have announced your opposition to that pick. Now, I have to ask, both Gina Haspel and former CIA Director John

Brennan were in the CIA when enhanced interrogation techniques, otherwise known by human rights groups as torture, were used.

A lot of people who oppose Haspel's nomination now over water- boarding, et cetera, voted yes when John Brennan was nominated by President Obama back in 2013, including you.

Why? Why is Brennan OK, but Gina Haspel is not?

B. SANDERS: Well, on this one, I would agree with John McCain, and tell you that I think -- and tell you what our leaders in the armed forces say.

[09:35:02]

If the United States condones torture for other people, then that subjects our own men and women who are captured to be tortured as well.

I think Brennan did a good job in his position. I have serious reservations about this nominee. And I will oppose her.

TAPPER: But you didn't have reservations about John Brennan. You voted for John Brennan. I guess my question is...

B. SANDERS: Well...

TAPPER: ... whatever reservations you have about Gina Haspel, why didn't they apply to Obama's nominee?

B. SANDERS: Well, it's not -- it's not just -- yes.

Jake, it's not just the issue of torture. It goes, I think, deeper than that. And that is the foreign policy that we have seen from Mr. Trump, which was repeated today by -- by John Bolton, something that I also strongly disagree with...

TAPPER: Your former campaign...

B. SANDERS: ... which is one of the reasons I voted -- I voted against Pompeo as well.

TAPPER: Your former campaign chairman -- campaign manager, rather, Jeff Weaver is going to be joining us later on, on this show. He's out with a new book.

Here's what he writes about you in this book -- quote -- "I believe Sanders is the strongest candidate to reclaim the White House in 2020. In this moment of history, his authentic message of positive change and his appeal to a broad range of voters gives Democrats the best opportunity to put together the coalition that can reclaim elected officials at all levels. Run, Bernie, run."

I have the book right here. It has a blurb from you right on the very, very top talking about how great this book is. Run, Bernie, run. Are you going to follow Jeff Weaver's advice?

B. SANDERS: Well, I'm going to urge everybody to read the book. It is a very good book. And Jeff did a great job for me in my campaign.

You know, we started in that campaign at, I think, 3 or 5 percent in the polls. We ended up winning 22 states and 13 million votes. And Jeff was one of the reasons we accomplished that. It's a good book.

TAPPER: Not -- not really an answer to the question, but I understand you don't like answering this question.

Senator Bernie...

B. SANDERS: Well, let me also answer this.

TAPPER: Yes. Yes.

B. SANDERS: Jake, let me take this opportunity to wish my wife and all the mothers of this country a very happy Mother's Day.

How is that for an answer?

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: Well...

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: ... it's -- you went from a deflection to a pandering. So, I love it.

Thank you so much, Senator.

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