MSNBC "All in with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Government Operations

Interview

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HAYES: Embattled EPA administrator Scott Pruitt today admitted he lied when he claimed earlier this month he had just found out about improper raises to two of his favorite aides. Facing a grilling on Capitol Hill, Pruitt, testifying under oath, admitted he had known about one of the raises in advance. But he was defiant when pressed on his myriad of scandals, blaming his aides and insisting that reports of his misconduct, which have led to at least ten, count them ten, federal investigations were drummed up by his political enemies.

Joining me now, Democratic Senator Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, a member of the Senate committee on environment and public works. And Senator, I guess I should start with this, were you at all assuaged, or convinced of the forthrightness of Scott Pruitt during his performance today in the House?

SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND, (D) NEW YORK: I didn`t see his performance, but I have deep concerns about Scott Pruitt and I think he should resign given all the allegations against him for taking a rental apartment from someone lobbying him, from the issue of raises, to all the other scandals that he`s brought forth.

Also just his record. I mean, when he was attorney general of Oklahoma, he sued the EPA on behalf of polluters as opposed to helping his state and protecting the health and well-being of families.

And all he`s done since he`s been EPA administrator is roll back protections for clean air and clean water. So given where he is right now, I wish he would step down.

HAYES: Ronnie Jackson is another cabinet nominee. Obviously you`re not on that committee, I don`t think, but you have to vote on him were he to come to the floor. That has been withdrawn. What do you think of that?

GILLIBRAND: Well, given the allegations against him, I have grave concerns that he should be the doctor for the president at this point. Certainly he had no qualifications to lead the VA, an agency with hundreds of thousands of employees and huge issues that need to be done to help and be our veterans better.

So, I don`t think he was qualified for that job. And now given these allegations of drunken behavior, given not being prepared to help the president whether he he was needed, are serious allegations and it puts into question whether he should keep his current job.

HAYES: Do you have a unified theory about why this keeps happening, about the sort of quality of the people around this administration, about the accusations against them, about all withdrawn nominees? What is your operating theory what`s going on?

GILLIBRAND: Well, unfortunately, President Trump said he would drain the swamp. He has filled it up. And he`s putting in place people in his cabinet that are directly opposed to the agencies they`re supposed to be running.
Look at Mick Mulvaney, for example. You know, head of the CFPB. He`s supposed to be protecting consumers. And we hear that he`s bragging to bankers and bank lobbyists that the way to get access is to give money, and that`s how he conducted himself as a member of congress, which is one of the reasons why I dropped a bill today to have postal banking, to try to unwind and get rid of some of the most predatory practices that payday lenders have right now. And he was somebody vastly supported by payday lenders.

So, it`s a question of judgment. He`s got people around him that aren`t doing the mission of the agencies they`re supposed to be running.

Mick Mulvaney gave that speech to bankers. Afterwards your colleague Sherrod Brown called for him to resign. Do you agree with him on that.

GILLIBRAND: I do. I mean, what he said is outrageous. And I just have concerns that the president is constantly surrounding himself with people who are not putting the people`s interests first. They`re not serving others.

They`re serving special interests. And they`re serving the ultra well connected, the ultra wealthy. Look at his tax bill alone.

HAYES: There`s -- you mentioned the swamp and obviously the allegations against Ronnie Jackson and Scott Pruitt. I want to ask you about a Democratic Colleague of yours, Senator Menendez of New Jersey. There`s a Senate ethics committee report today, a letter, a formal letter of admonition which severely admonished him for accepting gifts.

You were critical of your colleague Al Franken for the misconduct alleged by various women, said it was time for him to resign. Do you think Senator Menendez should resign?

GILLIBRAND: I haven`t seen the ethics investigation results, but he should follow the recommendations of the committee, and he should do what he`s been told to do.

HAYES: And you think that`s sufficient?

GILLIBRAND: I do.

HAYES: The president this morning did an interview on Fox & Friends this morning and he called in he had a lot to say about the Department of Justice, about the cases against him. I guess I wonder how confident are you in the president`s current mental state, fitness, where he`s at?

GILLIBRAND: Well, I don`t know about that, but I do think it`s really important to protect Mueller`s investigation. I think it is essential. I was grateful that from the committee today, there`s bipartisan legislation to protect that investigation. And if he is fired by the president, that there be a stay and all evidence will be preserved, why a judge can review whether or not he was fired for cause.

I think this investigation has to be continued. I think we`ve seen a lot of evidence already about different concerns that we have, whether it`s money laundering, whether it`s interference of our election by Russia, whether there`s collusion, whether there`s obstruction of justice, there`s still investigations that need to be completed.

And so I want to see this investigation to its fruition.

HAYES: Do you think Majority Leader Mitch McConnell should bring that bill to the floor?

GILLIBRAND: He certainly should. It`s a bipartisan bill and it just passed out of committee. It`s exactly the type of legislation we should be voting on.

HAYES: I`m going to ask you a question on a slightly obscure issue, but it may be something in
your bailiwick and it`s about the southern district of New York, which is obviously in your state. It`s often referred to as the most important district in the entire nation, the sovereign district of New York.

The U.S. attorney there is a guy by the name of Jeffrey Berman, who was appointed on a interim basis by Jeff Sessions, never formally nominated. He`s now been appointed by the court itself.

It seems to me like the person who is running the most important law enforcement office arguably in the country, that oversees the Michael Cohen case, hasn`t gone through a advise and consent in the Senate. And I wonder as the home state senator, what do you think of that?

GILLIBRAND: I have huge concerns. In fact, I wasn`t going to return the blue slip for him because he met with the president. And to be someone who is going to have that position, authority over an investigation that could involve the president, to meet with the president and get his OK, just raises concerns, issues of whether there`s impropriety or not.

And so without any analysis of his qualifications I thought the meeting alone disqualified him. So, it is troubling that he is running an office that is perhaps one of the most important in the country, and doesn`t have the benefit of advice and consent of the senate.

HAYES: So, I just want to make sure, you are -- because of that meeting, you were going to not return a blue slip, which is -- .

GILLIBRAND: Correct.

HAYES: -- a Senate process in which the home state senator essentially kind of exercises veto over the nomination?

GILLIBRAND: Correct.

HAYES: Is that the reason they`ve done this weird end around the nomination? Because I`m trying to figure this out, like why haven`t they formally nominated him? Do you think that`s why they did that?

GILLIBRAND: I don`t know, but I wouldn`t be surprised.

HAYES: All right, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, thanks for making some time with me tonight.

GILLIBRAND: Thank you.

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