MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Trump Administration
Interview
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
MATTHEWS: Promises, promises.
Trump`s administration has been littered with examples of just the opposite. Recently, EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt has come under intense criticism for alleged ethical lapses, including reports he rented an apartment from the wife of a lobbyist.
And, today, we learned what the president`s OMB director, Mick Mulvaney, tells bankers and lobbyists behind closed doors.
According to a transcript, Mulvaney, who is also the interim director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, told the annual Conference of the American Bankers Association -- quote -- "We had a hierarchy in my office in Congress. If you were a lobbyist who never gave us money, I didn`t talk to you. If you were a lobbyist who gave us money, I might talk to you. If you came from back home and sat in my lobby, I would talk to you without exception, regardless of the financial contributions."
His remarks first reported, by the way, by "The New York Times." Joining us right now is Senator Elizabeth Warren, Democrat of
Massachusetts. She helped create agency that Director Mulvaney currently runs.
People aren`t usually, in politics, so blunt about pay-to-play, so blunt.
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Well, let`s just be clear.
People are usually in a world where they try to hide corruption. This is now a guy who is so corrupt, it so thoroughly pervades everything he does, everything he thinks about, that he`s willing to say in front of 1,300 people that those who don`t pay me get one kind of treatment, and those who pay me, I actually listen to and maybe will do a little work on their behalf.
MATTHEWS: I have a sense, if he was working for Obama right now -- not that Obama was God or anything, but on these issues, he was pretty close to it -- he would have bumped that guy out of the Cabinet for the statement.
WARREN: Oh, gone. Gone.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: What does it tell you that he`s able to talk like this with impunity, knowing that his chief, his boss, the president of the United States, will not mind him saying, I`m running a pay-to-play operation?
WARREN: I`ll tell you exactly what it means.
It means most corrupt administration ever. The fact that Mick Mulvaney could stand up
MATTHEWS: Worse than Grant? Worse than Grant? Worse than (CROSSTALK)
WARREN: Exactly. Exactly.
The fact that Mick Mulvaney would stand up and say that in what is, in fact, a public place -- they knew the press was there.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
WARREN: And that he would say it and figured, hey, why not? Because that`s the kind of administration he`s in.
But I got to tell you, we have got to keep calling these guys out. You can`t just sit back and say, what are you going to do? The answer is, you got to call them out on it every single time and remind everybody. This is what elections are about come November.
MATTHEWS: What can you do about Pruitt, the so-called EPA director? He`s not an EPA director in any sense. He`s not regulating. He works for the industry. But he drives around like Nero in his chariot.
He got first-class everything. Everybody is making -- he`s got staff members making more than senators.
WARREN: Yes.
MATTHEWS: What is going on with this guy? He just gets away with it.
WARREN: Yes.
And this is again -- I mean, look, the two of them are there, Mulvaney. This is like a pair of them that we have got started here, because they see themselves as not working for the public.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
WARREN: They see themselves as working for those who contribute either to their own campaigns, their own pockets or to their party. And that just -- that can`t be how we run government anymore.
MATTHEWS: Let`s talk about cronyism.
We have already talked on this show a lot about nepotism. Fine. I know.
WARREN: Right.
MATTHEWS: They run the operation like the Romanovs.
WARREN: Right.
MATTHEWS: They got Jared doing prison reform today. I go, are you kidding? He`s also a Middle East expert. And that is the definition of cronyism.
Let`s talk about this doctor, this new Doc Holliday. The guy has a reputation for being drunk. It is like Doc Holliday. How did he get away with this? How has this been going on all these years? He`s apparently dealing out Percocet to people, people he`s -- security people he wants to help out. He wrecked a government vehicle while he`s drunk.
How come nobody knew about this stuff?
WARREN: So, look, I don`t know why it didn`t come out before.
But this is the part I do know. This is what vetting is about, before you make a public statement about somebody who is going to get a nomination.
MATTHEWS: Talk about vetting. He`s working -- he`s the president`s doctor. And he`s got a reputation for being drunk on the job. And the president doesn`t smell it, doesn`t know it? It`s either true or it isn`t.
WARREN: Well, and -- but more to the point, this is how the president thinks he runs government. He takes a liking to somebody, he names them, right? He decides he doesn`t like somebody, he fires them.
MATTHEWS: OK. Apparently, it`s just -- I`m just hearing now he denied wrecking the car.
WARREN: Oh, he denies wrecking the car.
MATTHEWS: He`s also denied having ever drank on the job. So, we`re going to have to get into these denials in the Senate
WARREN: I want to say on this one, though -- pause for a minute on this one.
I get it. I`m glad Jon Tester is looking into this, a whole committee is looking into this.
MATTHEWS: Tester has been tough.
WARREN: He has been. And I feel better knows Tester is going to be in
there.
But there`s one other part. If we`re going to talk about the Veterans Administration, to me, this is also a big policy issue. The real question is, the Republicans keep trying to get all the little slippery pieces in to privatize the VA.
All three of my older brothers are veterans. They all served. And I have firsthand experience on how important the Veterans Administration is to our veterans and how important it is to keep it independent, keep part of government, not to privatize it.
MATTHEWS: Right.
WARREN: And so, for me, what`s going to keep driving around this is, I want to hear a commitment from whoever`s running the Veterans Administration that they plan to make that place whole and strong, and not to privatize the services.
MATTHEWS: Let`s talk about something else that`s a part of your broadening portfolio. You`re on Armed Services now?
WARREN: Yes.
MATTHEWS: OK, let`s talk about -- that`s a big assignment.
What do you make of -- I keep asking all our guests, give me your optimistic, rosy scenario for any kind of deal with North Korea, and your worst-case scenario of what might come out of this meeting with the president and Kim Jong-un.
WARREN: OK. So, can I make this a little bit more complicated on the rosiest
MATTHEWS: OK. But get to the rosy one.
WARREN: No, the rosiest. I`m going to start with the rosiest.
The rosiest is, we stand by our deal in Iran, having talked Iran off the nuclear ledge, and we have very aggressive investigation, inspection on a regular basis with Iran, so that Iran, bad actor, Iran, but better to be a bad actor without nuclear weapons than a bad actor with nuclear weapons.
MATTHEWS: Sure.
WARREN: That`s our model.
Get North Korea to the same kind of place, where you do the same kind of aggressive inspections, that they are off the nuclear cliff. They still may be a bad actor.
MATTHEWS: Will containment work?
WARREN: Oh, I think what we got to do is -- I think where we ought to be aiming is denuclearization.
MATTHEWS: Roll back.
WARREN: Yes, roll back. Roll back.
MATTHEWS: Roll back what they have, destroy the weapons they have.
WARREN: But you have got to get those weapons out of there. Those weapons pose a threat, not just to the region. They pose a threat to the United States
(CROSSTALK)
WARREN: and to the world.
MATTHEWS: Is that realistic? Is that reasonable?
WARREN: Well
MATTHEWS: Could any president do that?
WARREN: You have got to
MATTHEWS: President Obama couldn`t do it. President George W. couldn`t do it. Bill Clinton couldn`t do it.
We have been trying as a country since the `90s at least to try to -- remember, the Clintons tried to give them coal so they wouldn`t use -- go nuclear?
WARREN: Yes.
MATTHEWS: I mean, we have tried a lot.
WARREN: But, you know, the part that keeps changing in this -- you asked me for my optimistic scenario -- is the allies. We were never going to be able to do this on our own.
Look, we didn`t do Iran on our own.
MATTHEWS: Do you think Xi will help us in China?
WARREN: We didn`t saddle up and just ride in on a horse into Iran.
MATTHEWS: Will Xi help us?
WARREN: That`s the question.
Is -- has Xi now looked over the border and said, wait a minute, we have got a guy liking that with nuclear weapons right on our border? Whoa. We need to rethink this.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
WARREN: When that happens, then we may be able to get something more aggressive done with North Korea.
MATTHEWS: It`s great to have you on.
WARREN: It`s good to be here.
MATTHEWS: Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, thanks for coming over.
WARREN: Thank you.
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
Source