CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Steve Cohen

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

CABRERA: I want to talk more about Trump's personal attorney under investigation. Joining us now Democratic congressman Steve Cohen of Tennessee, a member of the House Judiciary Committee.

Congressman, thanks for staying up late with us. I want to ask you about "The New York Times" --

REP. STEVE COHEN (D), TENNESSEE: You're welcome.

CABRERA: -- reporting that Trump confidants actually see this Michael Cohen probe as a bigger threat to Trump than Bob Mueller's massive Russia investigation.

[22:50:09] How do you see it?

COHEN: Well, it probably is. The Mueller investigation I think is going to show conduct with his campaign in Russia that is indeed illegal and going to show emoluments clause violations, that's going to show attacks on the press and on the judiciary that are harmful to democracy. But those have to be judged by the Congress. And right now with the Republican majority he would not be convicted.

In New York state and the Southern District of New York, he would be judged by a criminal jury eventually and I think that that's more likely a place where he would found guilty. So there are activities that he engaged in there and it's pretty well known that activities in his business world over the years, whether it's been the casino business or in the building business have certainly come close to crossing the barriers of legal and illegal, going to the illegal side. And he's --

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: I'm hearing you cross those barriers, though, and suggesting that you know something in which he definitively did have some kind of criminal wrongdoing. Do you know some evidence that Robert Mueller may have that hasn't been made public yet?

COHEN: No, I can't say that. And I've just done lots of civil cases where he's been found to be responsible and have been judgments taken against him, not just bankruptcies and not just Trump University, but there's all kind of civil case where there's preponderance of the evidence that he violated a duty that he owed to his fellow person -- fellow man and there are situations that are similar to that that it could be present in New York and be within the records of Michael Cohen. And the issue about attorney-client, you've got to have a client to be an attorney. And I don't know, I guess he passed the bar. I'm not sure.

CABRERA: Deputy AG Rod Rosenstein apparently signed off on this raid of Cohen's properties. We've seen the increased tax on Rosenstein by the president and his allies this week. What would happen if Rosenstein were fired?

COHEN: Well, he would put a straight jacket on Mueller, I'm sure. There's a man named Francisco who I think will be next in line who I've read is an honorable, straight-up gentleman, and maybe he would continue to allow Mueller to go where he thinks the evidence leads as truth dictates and justice demands. But the issue -- Rosenstein has done nothing wrong. He's a career Justice Department official who's had nothing but accolades. And he's an honorable person who's done good at this case job at the Justice Department and done good in overseeing Mueller.

And when he was in the state of Maryland he was highly respected. And it's a shame that anybody that gets close to Trump that doesn't do exactly what he wants to protect his -- I can't say protect his name because his name really isn't good, but to protect him, period, ends up getting sullied, whether it was McCabe, whether it's Comey, whether it's Rosenstein.

People who get close to him get sullied and end up being hurt and that's because he demands total fealty. And he doesn't respect people for ethical standards, for rectitude, for knowledge. You know, he came out, Trump, and said attorney-client is dead. What does Donald Trump know about attorney-client that Rosenstein doesn't? It's not even a game.

And you have a federal judge who decided they should issue those search warrants, and you have a U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York who went to court to get the search warrants issued. These are people who are learned in the law and knowledgeable and know about attorney-client privilege. And if attorney-client privilege is in question, you challenge it in court and you go in and you try to ask the judge to rule, to limit the evidence --

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: Right. Which is exactly what is happening. And this is what -- that what we know is happening.

COHEN: Exactly, but Donald Trump doesn't have a clue about any of it.

CABRERA: Let me ask --

COHEN: Donald Trump doesn't have a clue of any of it.

CABRERA: Let me ask you about Rosenstein a little bit more because --

COHEN: He comes out with -- please.

CABRERA: We learned on Friday that Rosenstein has been consulting with an ethics adviser within the Justice Department on whether he should recuse himself from the Mueller investigation because there have been questions about his own involvement in the James Comey firing, given he had put out a memo with what he thought was some wrongdoing on Comey's behalf in terms of how he handled the Hillary Clinton investigation, for example. But Rosenstein apparently has followed that individual's advice with the Ethics Department.

Does that give Rosenstein cover, do you think, with Republicans who've been critical of his ability to oversee the Mueller probe?

COHEN: I think the only reason Republicans has been critical is because Trump wants him to be critical. And he's having a trial of public opinion and trying to sully the investigation.

[22:55:04] The first time I had any encounter with Rosenstein, it was in a group meeting. And the issue came up about Comey's firing and he couldn't talk and he wouldn't talk about it, and people wondered why is he not talking about it. And then it kind of came on like a light and we realized the reason he wasn't is because he could be called as a witness and there was a conflict there. And he has showed probity that is commendable. And not any actions that would be questionable. I think the man is a paragon of virtue.

CABRERA: Congressman Steve Cohen, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

COHEN: You're very welcome. Thank you, Ana.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source